To ask how you afford to live in London?

[seekinglondonlife]

Name changed regular as my family are on MN and I don't want my posting history linked.
We decided to do Christmas in London this year, we've had a crap year and just wanted to get away. We're staying in a fairly central hotel, have been travelling around and exploring by bus everyday and I feel like I really want to move here. The diversity, having shops open on a Sunday past 5pm, the atmosphere, the ability to choose 5 or 6 different ethnic restaurants on the same street. The public transport is fantastic.

I've been looking in so many estate agents windows and cannot get over the cost of rent/to buy a property. How do 'normal' people live here? I've been friendly with a few of the hotel staff, they've lived and worked in London for 20+ years and have raised their families here, but they are on NMW jobs, so how do they do it? Does everyone get housing benefit?

If you feel inclined please say roughly where you live and how much you pay for rent/mortgage. Also what are the downsides? (Apart from the cost of housing!)

TIA

@stevalnamechanger

Funny, I live here and have done for years - never ever take the bus . Just don't find it an enjoyable way to travel

I don't think anyone actively enjoys taking the bus do they? It's just a way to get around

I'm just contrasting that to train travel, personally more preferable

I hate trains, the anxiety of missing one & waiting for the next one whereas buses & tubes are every few mins. Also a packed train is a nightmare to stand on

I use tubes when I have to get somewhere quickly (when I first moved to London we used to have bomb scares often - once stuck in a hot tunnels for 2 hrs - but the system wasn’t half as overcrowded as it it now). I tend to walk it or jump on a bus if I am pushed for time.

Much prefer the bus to tube travel. I like to be able to see where I am, and know that I can choose to get off at the next stop and walk. Obviously black cab is even better, but I’m not a Rothschild.

Obviously black cab is even better, but I’m not a Rothschild.

Yep

The house prices in outer london now compare fairly well with other areas nationally. Central London is and has always been (in my experience of 25 years) for seriously wealthy people only.

In the outer suburbs of South West London you can get lovely properties for rent or sale well within affordable range for a couple with average good salaries (not NMW).

I think it's a shame that social housing is so constrained, but I think unless you are genuinely destitute there are very few options left in most London boroughs. Again the suburbs likely have pockets of opportunity.

I don't think anyone actively enjoys taking the bus do they? It's just a way to get around

I actively enjoy taking the bus. My commonly used bus routes are very scenic.

@anon666 not sure about that. I live in an outer Suburb of SW London, in a 4 bed 1930'a semi and I could get a lot more for my money if I left London, apart from the Home Counties such as Surrey. I know as it's something that has been on the cards so we have looked into many options.

Surely it's location specific, parts of z4 will be affordable for London, parts will be expensive.

[quote EnidSpyton]@Bingbangbongbash

I am not 'slightly snooty'! For the millionth time, I don't have a problem with the London suburbs as places! Many of the suburbs are beautiful and have gorgeous architecture, parks and attractions. I do know this and have stated it several times!

However, I like to live in central London because it suits me to do so. That is no judgement on other people's choices to live elsewhere. I am allowed to have a personal preference for something without needing to be called snooty! The reality is, I don't like taking the tube or lengthy public transport journeys because I suffer from claustrophobia and often feel very panicky on the tube. As such, being able to walk everywhere I need to get to within a reasonable time frame is really important to me so that I don't have to deal with feeling panicked and anxious every time I need to go anywhere.[/quote]
Sorry, but I disagree. You dismiss anything outside z2 as ‘the suburbs’ and reduce places like Hampstead and Highgate to ‘identikit high streets’. I find that attitude snooty. The history and beauty of London isn’t restricted to the inner 2 zones. And I say that as someone born & bred Z1.

I live in z3, I would class it as the suburbs. Why is that offensive?

and I would say it gets progressively more suburban as you go further out

Buses are also not the same all around London. The ones in my part of town tend to be quite dirty and overcrowded, and often get stuck in traffic for a long time. Taking a bus in Central London is a different experience altogether though, much better.

You haven’t caught the 24 in the afternoon coming north to south. Ankle deep in fast food wrappers, full of yelling teens and sleeping/drunk homeless people. Very loud and smelly.

I miss London. I live in Ireland. I usually visit London three times a year.

Every time I go to London I say to the locals "I love London" and they always tell me that London is awful, overcrowded, expensive and dangerous.

I wonder is it much different to visit it then to live in it. But I love it! There is so much to do and see. I was so happy just getting a bus around and getting off at all the different little parts

@Bingbangbongbash

But anything outside of zone 2 really is a suburb, though. The definition of a suburb an outlying residential district of a city. What else would you call these areas? They are factually suburbs. You're reading a negativity into my use of the word that simply isn't there.

And yes, I do think most suburban areas do have identikit high streets. Again, that's not a judgement, it's a fact. I think it's a great tragedy that so many of the wonderful independent shops and cafes that used to make neighbourhoods distinctive have now been replaced by estate agents, charity shops, Costa and Starbucks, and Côte and Pizza Express. When I lived in Archway many moons ago, I used to love going up to Highgate to have tea and cake in the little cake shop owned by a local young woman, and to go book shopping in Ripping Yarns. Over the last few years though, all the independent places I loved have closed and now it's just the same chain places you can go to anywhere. It's largely the same in Hampstead too - the only distinctive place is Flask Walk, though how long the junk shop down there will survive, I don't know. I don't think it's 'snooty' to point out that due to high rental prices and business rates, most high streets in the UK have become 'identikit' streets. It's just a fact.

I know the history and beauty of Greater London don't end at zone 2. I have stated this multiple times.

Once again, I'm not criticising your decision to live in the suburbs. I don't have a problem with suburbs. Many of them are lovely. Many of them aren't. Many people live in them, for many different reasons. My choice not to live in a London suburb is no judgement on your choice to do the opposite. It's not snooty to have a preference for something.

[quote EnidSpyton]@Bingbangbongbash

But anything outside of zone 2 really is a suburb, though. The definition of a suburb an outlying residential district of a city. What else would you call these areas? They are factually suburbs. You're reading a negativity into my use of the word that simply isn't there.

And yes, I do think most suburban areas do have identikit high streets. Again, that's not a judgement, it's a fact. I think it's a great tragedy that so many of the wonderful independent shops and cafes that used to make neighbourhoods distinctive have now been replaced by estate agents, charity shops, Costa and Starbucks, and Côte and Pizza Express. When I lived in Archway many moons ago, I used to love going up to Highgate to have tea and cake in the little cake shop owned by a local young woman, and to go book shopping in Ripping Yarns. Over the last few years though, all the independent places I loved have closed and now it's just the same chain places you can go to anywhere. It's largely the same in Hampstead too - the only distinctive place is Flask Walk, though how long the junk shop down there will survive, I don't know. I don't think it's 'snooty' to point out that due to high rental prices and business rates, most high streets in the UK have become 'identikit' streets. It's just a fact.

I know the history and beauty of Greater London don't end at zone 2. I have stated this multiple times.

Once again, I'm not criticising your decision to live in the suburbs. I don't have a problem with suburbs. Many of them are lovely. Many of them aren't. Many people live in them, for many different reasons. My choice not to live in a London suburb is no judgement on your choice to do the opposite. It's not snooty to have a preference for something.[/quote]
That definition is old fashioned and too narrow to reflect the reality of London. If you want to use it, anything outside the Square Mile could be determined a suburb. I don’t need or seek your approval for where I live (nor have I stated my location, FWIW). But you are painting an incorrect picture of London that takes no account the spread and changes that decades of gentrification have brought. There are plenty of high streets with not a Costa in sight, and brimming with independent shops, cafes and cultural venues. They sit cheek by jowl with industrial estates and city parks - again, hardly within your narrow and outdated definition of suburban.

‘Suburban’ is also a loaded term, with associations that you are (or should be) well aware of. Dismissing (incorrectly - see above) anything outside Z2 as suburban is nonsense and rather snooty, IMO.

@Mufasa1118

I miss London. I live in Ireland. I usually visit London three times a year.

Every time I go to London I say to the locals "I love London" and they always tell me that London is awful, overcrowded, expensive and dangerous.

I wonder is it much different to visit it then to live in it. But I love it! There is so much to do and see. I was so happy just getting a bus around and getting off at all the different little parts

I’m Irish, now back living in Ireland, but spent many years in London and loved it. It’s @EnidSpyton’s posts that resonate strongly with me. We chose to live in a tiny zone 2 flat to be central, and were always out doing things. I loved exploring further out places like Isleworth, Richmond etc but I liked being very central because I liked not making an expedition to do things I wanted to do regularly.

@Bingbangbongbash

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Geographically it's not correct IMO to refer to areas outside of zone 1/2 as being city centre locations. They are more accurately described as suburbs with their own distinctive local characters and amenities. I am fully aware of the negative connotations of suburbia - but it is also impossible to not use the term suburb when referring to the factual geographical location of a place that is defined as one. If I'd used the term 'suburbia' I'd understand you reading a negative connotation into my use of the term suburb, but I didn't - I have merely used it as a geographical reference point. I'm an English teacher, so I do use my words carefully, you know. ;)

Yes I know there are plenty of suburban areas that are distinctive and interesting etc etc etc. It's becoming a bit boring having to keep repeating this. If people want to go exploring outside of zone 1, they'll find plenty of interesting places. I could list many. I've not painted an inaccurate picture of London at all - I've referenced numerous London suburbs that have distinctive features that are well worth visiting. I've not said anywhere that suburban areas are not worth going to, are boring, or horrible places to be. You've decided to read all this into what I've said. Clearly I've hit a nerve that I had no intention of hitting!

I don't think I do have a narrow or outdated definition of what would be considered suburban. I'm sure most people who live in say East Dulwich or Finchley or Walthamstow would agree they live in London suburbs with their own distinct character. Calling them suburbs is - as I've said before - an accurate geographical term for what they are. If you choose to read a negative connotation into the use of the term, that's on you.

Bought 50% value of a £165k flat in South London (Z2/3) in 2001 (part buy part rent) bought other 50% about five years later. Now pay £1100 in mortgage on the property but need to update the lease...Several financial missteps mean we are still here. Nice area, but houses are a million plus. Flat now worth £380k-ish. Daughter is going to a good local school, I have a good public sector job, husband is on an average £30k wage. We plan to move away once DD has decided what to do post-18. I will still work in London but I'm fed-up with it now. I need to get away. DH loves London was born and bred here, grew up in Elephant and Castle in a council house. Waiting lists for council properties are years long. We waited five years before giving up and going for PBPR.

I had no idea suburban was a loaded term! 😆

It seems rather snooty to be offended by living in the suburbs.

Every time I go to London I say to the locals "I love London" and they always tell me that London is awful, overcrowded, expensive and dangerous.

I wonder is it much different to visit it then to live in it. But I love it! There is so much to do and see. I was so happy just getting a bus around and getting off at all the different little parts

I feel the same way, and I've lived here for nearly 20 years! So does DH. I love taking buses through new areas.

@seekinglondonlife

If you live in a flat can you hear neighbours, or is there good soundproofing? That would be a big worry for me.

Ours was built in 2001. You can hear everything. I have a music enthusiast upstairs (t**t), a next door neighbour who lives to shout, constantly, and a three year old downstairs who screams her head off at four in the morning.

But we have poncy coffee shops and hairdressers and a Sweaty Betty nearby, plus a massive park, and the schools are actually very good, and have two bus routes to Central London, so we suffer it.