To ask how you afford to live in London?

[seekinglondonlife]

Name changed regular as my family are on MN and I don't want my posting history linked.
We decided to do Christmas in London this year, we've had a crap year and just wanted to get away. We're staying in a fairly central hotel, have been travelling around and exploring by bus everyday and I feel like I really want to move here. The diversity, having shops open on a Sunday past 5pm, the atmosphere, the ability to choose 5 or 6 different ethnic restaurants on the same street. The public transport is fantastic.

I've been looking in so many estate agents windows and cannot get over the cost of rent/to buy a property. How do 'normal' people live here? I've been friendly with a few of the hotel staff, they've lived and worked in London for 20+ years and have raised their families here, but they are on NMW jobs, so how do they do it? Does everyone get housing benefit?

If you feel inclined please say roughly where you live and how much you pay for rent/mortgage. Also what are the downsides? (Apart from the cost of housing!)

TIA

station even

I must admit I obviously have the opposite mentality to the poster above— when we lived in that south west London area— I rarely went into central London unless it was for a gig or an occasional exhibition or something similar— whether for meals out or a drink or shopping or a nice riverside or park walk I found that area had everything I myself wanted without the need to go central. I guess though it depends what you enjoy doing or other members of your family enjoy . At 60 I find London more manageable in the nicer suburbs (although we aren’t in UK at moment) — if I was 30 I might feel differently.

Yes you are right @wallypopz . You would have to live close to station - but as I’ve just expanded- I never wanted to go into central London much when we lived in that area if I’m honest , but liked the idea ‘ I could’

Surbiton with the fast bus could get there, yes. A few bus stops north of Wood Green could be zone 5 and half an hour to Chinatown. Overland into Charing Cross, or the new lines into Tottenham Court Rd also.

Lifelong Londoner. We have a house in zone 4 part funded through family help. The worst downside is air pollution and I worry about this a lot for my DC. Otherwise I love the diversity, the cafes, parks, the anonymity, good job opportunities, the fact I can easily find friends I have things in common with as there are so many people to choose from. I haven’t so far been affected by gangs, crime, drugs etc but they are all around. I think I have been lucky but also I am careful- some areas I avoid.

[quote seekinglondonlife]@Bingbangbongbash please tell me where I can get this cheap paratha [/quote]
Sorry, it’s one of the (many) secrets only Londoners get the info on 😉

Zone 1/2 husband bought ex council flat thanks to a small deposit which was a gift from very sensible parents 20 + years agoin an area that was considered deeply unfashionable and was therefore cheap over time it became very trendy and consequently prices are ridiculous small mortgage fully paid off thanks to very small amount left in a close relatives will. I don't work due to illness and my husband earns a comfortable but not crazy high salary. . Neither of us is from London and as soon as he retires we are moving out of the city because we want a garden and we can afford a much bigger and nicer place outside the city and commuter belt. Also no car or flash holidays

Zone 3 , mortgage is 900 + service charges ~300

We earn between 150-200k performance dependent and have no kids so that's all relative

No car costs / childcare - focus is on work and socializing

Downside :

Limited space
Smaller place
Noisy
Neighbours all on top of each other

I genuinely think we have a lower quality of life that where I am from ( not London but UK ) due to lack of space and somewhat stressful living environment

If you live in a flat can you hear neighbours, or is there good soundproofing? That would be a big worry for me.

@seekinglondonlife

If you live in a flat can you hear neighbours, or is there good soundproofing? That would be a big worry for me.

I live in a flat, I never hear the neighbours, even when one is having a party. You hear more noise living in terrace or semi-detached house.

When we stay at Grandmas we have to take ear plugs, she lives in a semi-detached so you can hear everything next door, and her neighbours aren’t loud people.

Depends on the type of flat. Some conversions are noisier than purpose-built. Ex-council are often better built, with concrete floors etc, so tend to be less noisy. But yes, living cheek-by-jowl isn’t as peaceful as having fewer connected neighbours.

Your first post answers everything about why people live in London - there’s an undefinable magic to the city that either outweighs all the expense, pollution and other compromises for you, or it doesn’t.

For the slightly snooty PP who couldn’t possibly live in Highgate or Hampstead, that magic only dusts their immediate location. For others it reaches a bit further.

But I can assure you, the balance between magic and inconvenience changes with age, money and family. You need to work out your own balance if London is calling you.

@seekinglondonlife

If you live in a flat can you hear neighbours, or is there good soundproofing? That would be a big worry for me.

It depends on the flat. I’m on the ground floor of a mansion block- not as grand as it might sound - and I don’t hear my neighbours above me. I can hear the front door of the communal entrance hall open and shut. But even if you have a house, houses in London are generally terraced, so you will have neighbours either side anyway.

@seekinglondonlife

If you live in a flat can you hear neighbours, or is there good soundproofing? That would be a big worry for me.

Depends on the neighbours and the build. But hey, when I lived in a small sleepy village, with detached houses and huge gardens… we still had the neighbour two doors up who used the practice the bagpipes in the back garden at all hours!

Zone 5 (outer London, but on the tube). When we moved here with my children's father a teacher (albeit head of department and already a house owner in NW England) it was not easy. My first salary was £6250 a year when he moved down here in 1983. We bought in 1984 and house prices out here were so much higher than N England that his school had to provide flats for teachers. We started out in one of those and I slept on a mattress on the floor when pregnant (these were not luxury school flats!!!). The local nurses in 1984 had to live in a nurse's home against because of high London rents and house prices etc etc and there was very little property to let as tenants could stay for life often on £10 a year rent act rents and council housing had 20 year waiting lists. So then assured shortholds came in in the 1980s and suddenly at least there were places to rent again which were decent although expensive.

We managed it by having 2 full time professional salaries and buying before we bred which is what my parents did actually too in the 1960s and they put off children for about 10 years to buy a house (In NE England).

We started in 1984 after the school provided flat with buying a small terraced house just before baby no. 1 came. I worked until I went into labour and went back to work full time afer 2 weeks (not months, weeks) and expressed breastmilk at work. That is one way we managed to afford to buy a house in outer London. I am not sure many women in 2021 would be prepared to do that. Amazingly those same houses can be afforded by London lawyers int he same way they could by me (trainee lawyer) in 1984. However these days you need a huge sum as a deposit even on a 95% mortgage so it is hard to compare then and now.

We moved from there to a semi detached in Brent by about 1987 after baby no. 2 was here. Then bought 2 flats to let out locally which were a disaster - had to sell them for about 50% losses in the 1990s so let us gloss over those....Then bought our 3rd house to live in - detached after selling our semi detached in zone 4 or 5 . That was bought in about 1990 after baby no. 3 was here and still i was taking 2 or 3 weeks off to have a baby and working full time before and after indeed until i went into labour and we sold it at a loss in 1997 and bought this bigger also detached house in zone 5 where I hope to die in due course after 50 years here if I live that long.

My own advice to buyers is buy for as much as you can as young as you can and buy before you have babies and buy with both of you having two full time professional salaries. Never give up work when children come either and borrow as much as you can. Buy freehold. Buy a house not a flat. ideally do not buy a new build. Do that even if it means you have the 1 hour door to door we do from our house with garden into the centre of London. In theory it is 35 mins on the tube but when you add the bit at each end it is an hour.

I live in purpose built and don't really hear neighbours at all , unless there is a wild party going on which is very rare - or if someone (child) runs down the corridor outside . I can occasionally hear the flat above empty their bath if I don't have the TV/ radio / on etc .

I also rarely see neighbours in the corridors it's very strange .

Like PP said , it's a balance between having access to London and the social life and the reduced living standards

I live in a flat, I never hear the neighbours, even when one is having a party. You hear more noise living in terrace or semi-detached house.

This may be your experience but mine is the opposite. I have lived in flats and maisonettes, ground floor and 1st floor and could hear my last neighbours down stairs having sex! The noise was a regular feature of life in every flat I lived in but I accepted it as par for the course of living in a flat. Have now lived in a semi detached house for 5 years and not a peep do I ever hear from my attached neighbour. We don't hear noise from the garden thanks to wonderful windows and french doors that are really well sound proofed. I also grew up in an Edwardian semi, in London. Then we could hear the neighbours occasionally say if they were running down the stairs but not the level of detail of their lives like with my neighbours in the flat 😳

I've recently moved out of London (in my late thirties) but I afforded it for 15 years by:
Flat sharing - never lived alone
Living far from a tube station - South London is more affordable but has fewer tubes so you have to rely on buses and trains
Earning a London salary and working in financial services

I was in debt for most of my twenties though. It's not cheap!

I thought it was so easy and quick to get around London.

I went to London for a week last month. I ended up staying in Slough (I know not London but it was near heathrow airport so it was handy) and I just hopped on a bus from Slough each day and travelled all around London so quickly. I was impressed at how easy it was on the bus

The last time I went to London i took the tube around and it was a nightmare
.
The London bus is much better

I thought the London bus system was a thousand times better than the tube (underground). I will always take the bus if I go to london again

In central London the buses are great. But out of zone 1 not so great in rush hours, Which in London go on for several hours. Mind you the tube is not much better in that it's rammed, but it doesn't get stuck in traffic!

Trouble with the bus system is generally the traffic

Trouble with the tube is passengers. I used to work in Soho, in December after work I'd often have to queue/wait to get into the station. So glad I can now walk to work.

Funny, I live here and have done for years - never ever take the bus . Just don't find it an enjoyable way to travel

@Bingbangbongbash

I am not 'slightly snooty'! For the millionth time, I don't have a problem with the London suburbs as places! Many of the suburbs are beautiful and have gorgeous architecture, parks and attractions. I do know this and have stated it several times!

However, I like to live in central London because it suits me to do so. That is no judgement on other people's choices to live elsewhere. I am allowed to have a personal preference for something without needing to be called snooty! The reality is, I don't like taking the tube or lengthy public transport journeys because I suffer from claustrophobia and often feel very panicky on the tube. As such, being able to walk everywhere I need to get to within a reasonable time frame is really important to me so that I don't have to deal with feeling panicked and anxious every time I need to go anywhere.