To ask how you afford to live in London?

[seekinglondonlife]

Name changed regular as my family are on MN and I don't want my posting history linked.
We decided to do Christmas in London this year, we've had a crap year and just wanted to get away. We're staying in a fairly central hotel, have been travelling around and exploring by bus everyday and I feel like I really want to move here. The diversity, having shops open on a Sunday past 5pm, the atmosphere, the ability to choose 5 or 6 different ethnic restaurants on the same street. The public transport is fantastic.

I've been looking in so many estate agents windows and cannot get over the cost of rent/to buy a property. How do 'normal' people live here? I've been friendly with a few of the hotel staff, they've lived and worked in London for 20+ years and have raised their families here, but they are on NMW jobs, so how do they do it? Does everyone get housing benefit?

If you feel inclined please say roughly where you live and how much you pay for rent/mortgage. Also what are the downsides? (Apart from the cost of housing!)

TIA

@caringcarer I'm still here because it was important for me to stay close to family & originally friends as my parents are immigrants so no other ties to other parts & no real idea about them. Now my dc are a little older & all my friends have moved on & I'm finding I spend more & more time in my little part I may as well move.

As much as I love London though I couldn't imagine spending lots of my income in a horrible house share for a long time, seems pointless.

@caringcarer

This thread is fascinating to me. I have never lived in London but been for theatre, sports events, Olympics and just days out probably 3 or 4 times a year. I am in Midlands and can get train to London Euston in 50 mins. I live in 4 bedroom house, 3 bathrooms with enormous garden that we had loft conversions to get bedroom 5 and 6. I live in village close to large town with plenty to do. Mortgage is only £700 pcm and only 2 more years to pay as overpaid for almost 10 years now. Almost everyone on the thread is saying they would never live anywhere else. Can I ask what is it that would make you prefer to live in cramped accomodation rather than a more spacious home with large garden and you would have more money left over for holidays and activities? I am not being goady, but just amazed by so many responses saying they would never move out of London but at same time many saying they have little room for living or most money is spent on rent or mortgage. I am finding it hard to understand.

I think some people are just big city people and will never see the attraction of living in a small village or town. Personally I couldn’t care less about living in a spacious house or having a large garden to maintain and we already have money for holidays and all the activities we could ever want to do.

In London it feels like the world is on my doorstep, I can hear 10 different languages being spoken on an average 10 minute bus journey, I have the Tate, the National Gallery and the British Museum a few stops away on the tube. But mostly it’s just a buzz and energy and a sense of a city alive with life. Of course it’s not perfect (cars & air pollution are my biggest worry) and it requires some compromises but overall definitely worth it.

@caringcarer

I’m here because my family are and DH and I would find work harder to obtain at the same pay.

But the biggest factor is that my council provides well for SEN and with two children with additional needs which has made us decide not to move whilst they’re school age.

@caringcarer as an ethnic (and religious) minority, i really feel more comfortable in London. It was the same for DH's mum who is also an immigrant. Once DH and I went to a pub in a small town, they took one look at us (mixed race couple) and told us that they were not serving food while happily welcoming other white patrons. This would not have happened in london or at least I have not experienced it. Also DH has a Hebrew name (which people struggle to pronounce) and he has never gotten a job offer that isn't from american investment banks and Amazon aka large companies with strong diversity policies despite applying for all sorts of companies and hundreds of jobs. I don't want to say its anti-semitism but if it is, he is better off in London where there are a lot of large companies and a very diverse workforce. He is likely to always work for such companies and investment banks have been the most resistant to wfh and are mainly based in London, so while other people would take a paycut moving out of London, he is likely to be without a job. I am sure this is not the experience of all Jewish people as a disclaimer, but this has been his experience so far. I also have a work colleague from Leicester who told me it is far easier to find a job in London than in his city so I am guessing other people would rather have a job than potentially cheaper housing costs.

So it is London for us given that the desirable SE commuter towns are often more expensive than london. We need to earn money to pay our big mortgage!

Can I ask what is it that would make you prefer to live in cramped accomodation rather than a more spacious home with large garden and you would have more money left over for holidays and activities?

Well for one thing, I do have money left over for holidays and activities! That’s why I live in a small flat. I could afford a million pound house, but then I’d have no money for anything else. I prioritise doing stuff over having stuff, and London is great for things to do and places to go.

I don’t really want a flashy car, or an expensive handbag, I’d rather spend the money on a holiday or some kind of activity. And I wouldn’t want to live in a big house in a field - I grew up in a small village, and was bored rigid between ages 10-17, until I learned to drive and could go and do stuff in the nearest big town. I like visiting DM, but even then we go out into town or for a walk or something.

@caringcarer and yes i do have money for holidays ( i have 1 long haul holiday to asia and a short haul holiday in pre covid times) and I overpay an additional £1k for my mortgage every month. I don't have a car which saves me money. Groceries and utilities are the same everywhere. London council tax is often lower than many parts of the country. I also don't worry about turning the heating on as my 2 bed flat is small and the other flats keep my flat warm!

I mean london isn't the most unaffordable city in the uk; truro, cambridge, oxford, bath, brighton, chichester are more unaffordable than london relative to local wages. But I hardly ever hear people saying that people in truro should move out and seek a better quality of life elsewhere.

@caringcarer

This thread is fascinating to me. I have never lived in London but been for theatre, sports events, Olympics and just days out probably 3 or 4 times a year. I am in Midlands and can get train to London Euston in 50 mins. I live in 4 bedroom house, 3 bathrooms with enormous garden that we had loft conversions to get bedroom 5 and 6. I live in village close to large town with plenty to do. Mortgage is only £700 pcm and only 2 more years to pay as overpaid for almost 10 years now. Almost everyone on the thread is saying they would never live anywhere else. Can I ask what is it that would make you prefer to live in cramped accomodation rather than a more spacious home with large garden and you would have more money left over for holidays and activities? I am not being goady, but just amazed by so many responses saying they would never move out of London but at same time many saying they have little room for living or most money is spent on rent or mortgage. I am finding it hard to understand.

Because you have to take the train for an hour to get to London three or four times a year. Can’t you see the difference between that and living there and having theatre, museums, art, culture, food etc on your doorstep ? I’m a foreigner, but lived in London (and then in the Midlands an hour out of St Pancras) for many years by living in a squat in Kilburn, then in a series of grotty houseshares around the city, then buying with DP (no help) a tiny 1- bed flat in an unfashionable area near a zone 2 tube station from which I could walk to the West End if I wanted to stretch my legs. Sure, we sacrificed space and comforts, but it was more than worth it. We lived very cheaply — no car, not many possessions, lots of free cultural stuff, wonderful cheap ethnic food shops nearby, lots of public green space, history, liveliness, city to explore. DS took his first steps in theTurbine Hall at Tate Modern.

When we left London for the Midlands for work, the large house in no way made up for how dreary, insular and xenophobic I found it. It’s no good having a big house if nothing outside it is interesting.

It’s no good having a big house if nothing outside it is interesting.

I would not mind living in Manchester but I also wouldn't get a big house for 400k in my preferred location, Didsbury! In fact a quick look at rightmove shows that there is a flat listed for the same price as my london flat, www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/108804662#/?channel=RES_NEW Granted it is much bigger than my london flat and I would LOVE it if it was in my area in London, but still it isn't exactly a big house after moving hundreds of miles. And no I don't want to compromise on location after moving hundreds of miles. I did see a 4 bed terrace in west didsbury for 400k but it honestly looked very very far from dream house territory.

I have found this to be the case all over the UK in desirable areas. Londoners have spent a total of 55 billion on homes outside the city. This is likely to be the trend going forward. I would rather not join them and sit out the madness. I think its a bit of a bubble honestly and people are overpaying. London house prices has been stagnant since 2015 in a lot of parts and especially for flats; rents are likely to stagnate too. I think it has never been better to stay if you love london.

Even with travel and hotel costs, it's probably cheaper to just go on holiday there whenever you can OP! Plus that way you won't ever take it for granted.

@caringcarer our house in zone 4 is not pokey/small. It's a large 1930s semi. We bought close to an excellent school where DC started reception this year. We didn't even consider private school. Granted our garden is not massive but we have excellent parks 10 minutes away in opposite directions. Garden is big and nice enough for DC to potter about in happily for a few hours a day. We r also minorities and have lived in the home counties (mainly Essex). London is the place where we have felt most at home.

Bought 3 bed terraced in zone 5 for £240,000 years ago just before prices sky-rocketed. Mortgage has 7 years left and is £700 per month. House is now worth circa £650,000. I'd love to sell up and move to the countryside, I've well & truly outgrown london.

@caringcarer

This thread is fascinating to me. I have never lived in London but been for theatre, sports events, Olympics and just days out probably 3 or 4 times a year. I am in Midlands and can get train to London Euston in 50 mins. I live in 4 bedroom house, 3 bathrooms with enormous garden that we had loft conversions to get bedroom 5 and 6. I live in village close to large town with plenty to do. Mortgage is only £700 pcm and only 2 more years to pay as overpaid for almost 10 years now. Almost everyone on the thread is saying they would never live anywhere else. Can I ask what is it that would make you prefer to live in cramped accomodation rather than a more spacious home with large garden and you would have more money left over for holidays and activities? I am not being goady, but just amazed by so many responses saying they would never move out of London but at same time many saying they have little room for living or most money is spent on rent or mortgage. I am finding it hard to understand.

Because what you enjoy 3-4 times a year, we can enjoy in a week?

But mostly it's a cultural thing. I love the diversity of london. I love that there is no judgement and you can be as anonymous as you like, but also find people with the same niche interests because everything is catered for here.

The work opportunities are varied and exciting.

I've always loved in nice flats in london, sometimes with a garden but more often than not using a beautiful public green space instead! Sometimes I've had flatmates, and I've loved living with people from all over the world.

It's just different priorities; a huge house and massive garden is not what I aspire to. I believe london is one of the best cities in the world, and every day I casually walk past St Paul's, or cross Waterloo Bridge, or cycle around Trafalgar Square, I get goosebumps. It's a place that people travel all around the world to see, and I get to live here 🤩🤩🤩.

Thanks for the replies, all very interesting. I can see why people compromise on space for the lifestyle.
For those saying it's a great place to bring up young children - are there many leisure centres, because I don't think I've seen one. Someone up thread said they swim or play tennis daily, are these private clubs or cheap council run activities?

Mortgage £1500, in a 3 bedder
I’ve always bought ex local authority and live on an estate that’s mixed private , rented and council

There is always ex local authority to buy and it’s affordable if you can’t afford a 30s semi or a Victorian

Op London is full of parks , playgrounds , other kids and green spaces and libraries (most are sadly shut now) , my kids had a great childhood

The main issue here is the prevalent
Noise around schools and how people create ghettoes of monied people so their kids can attend a school with less poor and brown faces
It’s a real issue IMO

On this, I think a lot of people coming from outside London don't realise that somewhere like, say, Lewisham (trains to London Bridge in 10 mins) is still really London. They think it's almost outside London and then why not live miles out and come in occasionally to shop or for a show? I felt a bit like this the first couple of years I lived here, I kept thinking every move further out would take me 'out' of London and then I'd move there and realise it was still London. I did this because I was looking for cheaper houseshares, but if you're coming from outside with money to buy you might only look as far as zone 2.

The only time I didn't feel like I was in London was when I lived in zone 4 in a very suburban area. I felt like you could be anywhere in the UK, almost - if you left the house you didn't see anyone on the streets. I eventually moved back to a much denser (still cheap) part of zone 3 and am much happier there. I think a lot of people on this thread have expressed that it's not just instant access to theatres and galleries etc that they like but the feel of living in the middle of tons of people, from everywhere in the world. I grew up in a tiny rural village and I love the anonymity of London as well as the friends I've made. I think some people like being here because they quite like - or don't mind - being squeezed into a little flat with lots of strangers all around. You really live your life outside the flat. Which was why lockdown sucked, haha.

On affordability: I moved to London in the early 2000s, saved for over a decade living in houseshares, and only managed to buy a cheapish (under 300k) rundown flat in 2016, and even then only with a bit of family help. I agree it's a bit easier if your family and roots are here, even if that just means you can live at home to save.

We brought up two children in a small 3 bed house. North West London (eg Golders Green) is very expensive for housing and it always was. Other things are also pricey eg hairdressers and window cleaners. Also the cost of travel into Central London. However I have lived here for over 50 years and can’t imagine living anywhere else. We are always surprised at the asking prices for housing outside London.

Oops that was meant to reply to @TedMullins above...

@seekinglondonlife

Thanks for the replies, all very interesting. I can see why people compromise on space for the lifestyle. For those saying it's a great place to bring up young children - are there many leisure centres, because I don't think I've seen one. Someone up thread said they swim or play tennis daily, are these private clubs or cheap council run activities?

I can only speak for South London but yes there are leisure centres, though they are essentially privately run in my Borough. I know of at least one in central London too - the Oasis centre near Covent Garden with an outdoor pool.

@seekinglondonlife

Thanks for the replies, all very interesting. I can see why people compromise on space for the lifestyle. For those saying it's a great place to bring up young children - are there many leisure centres, because I don't think I've seen one. Someone up thread said they swim or play tennis daily, are these private clubs or cheap council run activities?

Lots of leisure centres. My council-run one, with swimming pool, is 30 seconds from my front door. And there are lots of parks too for outdoor activities.

I rent a 4 bed HA house in zone 2 at a cost of £700 p/m. I exchanged into this property from a 3 bed council house outside of London back in the early 2000’s. The rent when I moved in was £164 p/w and is now £161 p/w. It went up a few times, but also went down a few times (just by a £1 or 2 p/w each time), so on balance hasn’t really changed in nearly 20 years. This is the big thing with social housing, the rents are quite stable.

I work in the public sector so, while I am not rich, my rent is affordable on my wages alone. I know how lucky I am to have this place. If I need to I can rent out one bedroom for £600 p/m so that is most of the rent. I’ve had a lodger a couple of times (I am allowed within my tenancy) and was flooded with people wanting the room. So I know there is demand.

There is a lot of SH in London. It’s just that demand has outstripped supply. But plenty of us do have a SH property.

@caringcarer

This thread is fascinating to me. I have never lived in London but been for theatre, sports events, Olympics and just days out probably 3 or 4 times a year. I am in Midlands and can get train to London Euston in 50 mins. I live in 4 bedroom house, 3 bathrooms with enormous garden that we had loft conversions to get bedroom 5 and 6. I live in village close to large town with plenty to do. Mortgage is only £700 pcm and only 2 more years to pay as overpaid for almost 10 years now. Almost everyone on the thread is saying they would never live anywhere else. Can I ask what is it that would make you prefer to live in cramped accomodation rather than a more spacious home with large garden and you would have more money left over for holidays and activities? I am not being goady, but just amazed by so many responses saying they would never move out of London but at same time many saying they have little room for living or most money is spent on rent or mortgage. I am finding it hard to understand.

I live in a one bed flat and I’m 24, for me I just genuinely have no desire to live in anything bigger than a two or three bed flat, I find it cosy and just like living in flats but I understand that’s not for everyone, especially for those with large families.

I don’t actually find it too expensive to live here. I am on just over 30k which means my take home salary is £2200 a month. My rent is halved with my partner which is around £700 and another £400 for bills and food. This leaves me with £1100 a month to basically spend on what I like. There’s so much free stuff to do in London like the parks and museums that I never spend my monthly disposable income, not everyone goes on the London Eye every weekend. The good thing about this is it has given me the opportunity to save to buy a flat (I already had some savings before moving here but my salary increase has allowed me to save more quickly since moving) and I am now in the position to buy in the area that we are currently living in.