To think veganism is the future?

[Libertynan]

I started eating a plant based diet for Veganuary this year and am still at it.

It has been a revelation. All the family have joined in ( although DH likes a bit of strong cheddar now and again).

We eat some really good meals and don’t feel like we’re missing out on anything.

I have been reading a lot about animal welfare and the effect that intensive farming has on the environment and I can’t see how anyone can ignore these issues.

AIBU to wish that more people would at least eat fewer animal products and try plant based.

I'd like to think we'll become more local and sustainable in our eating rather than shipping in fucking avocados, quinoa and processed fake meat. Eat intuitively to our landscape. Local meat, occasionally, British fruit and veg - swedes, carrots, apples etc.

Basically eat like my parents, back to basics with modern cooking techniques.

I would welcome mass farming of insects though - locusts, meal worm etc, low carbon impact with meaty protein hit, like a replacement mince.

No, but I echo the posters who say that local and seasonal are the way forward. Plenty of issues caused by fruit and vegetables grown elsewhere in the world, and that's before the airmiles.

I refuse to buy meat from abroad. Either it's British or I don't buy it. I sometimes ask in the shop if there is no British option, just to make a point!

My PIL have a large fruit and vegetable garden and buy very little from shops apart from some British meat and dairy. I did their shopping during the lockdowns and it was so little. I imagine that their impact on the environment is far smaller than most vegans. They are also farmers, so isn't it funny how stereotypes don't always work out?!

Local is not always better though - namely the high carbon footprint of eg crops (especially tomatoes, peppers, aubergine) grown under glass with heating and artificial light.
Food freighted by sea (including bananas!) is more environmentally friendly, however counter-intuitive that may seem.

We evolved to eat a plant based diet. Fairly recently we started to eat meat and animal products on an occasional basis, I think this was due to climate change. We are adaptable and can tolerate meat and animal products but we are arguably not well adapted to them. The diet we eat now is a million years away from what we evolved to eat. We now don’t eat enough fruit and vegetables or fibre. We eat far too much meat with is nothing like the meat even our recent ancestors ate. The b12 argument is a red herring as farmed animals need to be supplemented as they don’t eat grass anymore. Non western diets are much more vegan and veg based and generally healthier because of the plant content. I think meat eating will drop out of favour due to health and animal welfare reasons. Brits eat 17% less meat than they did 10 years ago which I think is hugely significant.

Nope. Whilst I agree that intensive farming isn't good for the environment or the animals, I also believe a diet based in both plant and meat works for me, and has historically for humans and I'm happy with it. My contribution is to try and source meat more ethically and from farms but I won't be giving it up ever.

@Bofthebang

I’m vegan and 100% wish that the “I couldn’t live without meat/cheese” brigade would consider living in a world where animals aren’t killed or exploited just to fulfil people’s wants, rather than needs.

Humans are the only animals that treat other animals like utter shit. I hate it. A plant based diet harms no one, harms no animals. Those who can’t give up cheese or meat (🙄) harm so many living things and are too selfish to admit it or change it.

The picture of lions and lambs your sunday school teacher showed you weren't really science. We are actually the only species that cares either way, because we have the intelligence to make choices. Most just get on with it.

I agree that people should move towards more plant based eating - but this needs to be healthy unprocessed plant based rather than the fake meats / processed crap which is currently being marketed at vegans .

I don't eat meat or poultry but eat fish, dairy, eggs. I only eat vegan food occasionally, maybe a bean casserole, but there is a limit how often I would want to eat that , although I do mainly eat some kind of vegetable soup for lunch .

Not if they are your own peppers, tomatoes etc! No artificial light in my greenhouse. I'm still eating tomatoes from the summer.

How many people can actually have the time, space and resources to grow their own veg though? Realistically we cannot grow enough to feed the population on fruit and vegetables alone. Soil needs crops to be rotated, soil needs fertilising.

Sorry- that posted wrong!!! I wouldn't go vegan, or vegetarian, but also believe that there needs to be a more of a range of fruit vegetables, meat and fish eaten- and nothing wrong with meat free meals a few times a week. Agree regarding over farming- but same can be said for some grains etc too. For me it's about trying to buy ethically and mindfully.

Brits eat 17% less meat than they did 10 years ago which I think is hugely significant

There's a big difference between choosing to eat less meat and being a vegan. Almost everyone I know eats less meat than they did ten years ago but that's due to cost, increased choice etc but I don't know anyone who has expressed that they're on their way to becoming vegan.

Its way more complicated than everyone going vegan. It's a comparative luxury to have a vegan diet for many people who couldn't afford to do so healthily by buying a range of fresh fruit and veg.

Some countries have terrain that is suited to livestock but not crops, eg keeping goats in mountains for meat and milk. They'd have to import much more of their food if everyone went vegan.

Some vegans eat super processed food that isn't much better for health than meat burgers, if you make everything from scratch it puts additional strain on women who will most likely be the ones doing the cooking. Plus it's harder to get kids to eat a healthy diet based on plant foods.

What we really need to do is reduce consumption of animal products, eradicate intensive farming and address the growing market for meat in developing countries such as China.

On the other hand, in many poorer countries people who mainly eat a few staple crops could definitely benefit from having more animal products in their diets.

I was vegan for a year and got horribly unwell, lost no weight and the cost was crazy to make it work for the family. The food tasted ok though.

Not everyone can eat local though, if we define local as within one's national boundaries. As was repeated constantly during Brexit, the UK imports about half its food -- that number could be reduced but not completely.

By most estimates the only European country that could realistically feed itself is France, not that many other countries in the world can say the same (e.g. the US could). Countries like Saudi Arabia import 80% of their food.

Urbanisation is increasing all the time, there are more and more mega cities of 10+ million people.

So eating locally is not the answer for everyone.

Well everyone who is lactose tolerant to adulthood evolved to consume animal milk products. 🤷

I think it may be the future but more likely due to climate change and it becoming very costly and impractical to farm for meat and other animal products.

Possibly farmed meat rather than lab grown or fake meat will become something available only to the very rich.

@Muminabun "The b12 argument is a red herring as farmed animals need to be supplemented as they don’t eat grass anymore."

Do you know any farmers? Sheep live out all year round apart from lambing. Cows eat grass all year round too. Out in the fields for as many months as possible but they hate getting wet and cold. They stand at the gate wanting to come in. Whether you want to believe it or not, they are cared for, and as such, they get nice warm sheds in the winter and grass and maize silage to eat.

www.pasturebird.com/

I love being vegan. I do think lab grown meat and dairy will play a role in the future though. The dairy they can make in labs now is genetically identical to cow's milk proteins but with no animals involved. I must admit when Perfect Day foods make a sharp cheddar I'll be first in the queue

I also think the "local meat and dairy diet is better for the planet than non-global plant based diet" thing has been thoroughly debunked, hasn't it? I dont have a reference but I feel like I've read that quite a few times...

[quote littlemisslozza]@Muminabun "The b12 argument is a red herring as farmed animals need to be supplemented as they don’t eat grass anymore."

Do you know any farmers? Sheep live out all year round apart from lambing. Cows eat grass all year round too. Out in the fields for as many months as possible but they hate getting wet and cold. They stand at the gate wanting to come in. Whether you want to believe it or not, they are cared for, and as such, they get nice warm sheds in the winter and grass and maize silage to eat.[/quote]
But they still need supplementation as do chickens, pigs, turkeys etc. I don’t doubt that individual farmers care for their animals but the slaughter is awful and the removal of calves for dairy. Being out in a blank field is very far away from a sheep or cows natural environment and diet they are not foraging on variety. You are right we have domesticated livestock for our own purposes to the extent that they are no longer comfortable living out and can’t cope with weather.

I don’t believe you can win anyone over with a “vegan” diet because a vegan diet can mean processed tofu, seitan, beyond meat burgers and sausages and other processed crap.

However I truly believe the way forward is a whole food plant based diet which focuses on plants predominantly and limits (but not necessarily eliminates) meat, dairy and processed foods.

I eat a predominately plant based diet and eat meat and dairy rarely (3 times over past 6 months or so) but I think we’ll see far more people look to reduce meat and dairy consumption over the next decade.

Too many people Baulk at the idea of being “vegan” but frankly veganism and a whole food plant based lifestyle are two very different things. One is a philosophy for life and seeks to eliminate animal products in every way as much as possible, the other eliminates them for health reasons.

@Muminabun True. Time have changed. We are also guilty of projecting our human emotions onto animals and it's not always helpful. Many cows are terrible mothers and not interested in their calves. You might not believe me but it is true. Honestly.

Regarding slaughter. I find this this a tough subject too and can only say that we find the most humane option we can. I'm confident that our cows are not aware, and I say that having done a 'whole journey' visit of the abattoir we send them too. Please be reassured that farmers (on the whole) are decent people who care, and actually, contracts are reflecting the standards expected by consumers.

I love food and so do eat meat and dairy, I am reducing my meat consumption at home, but I still eat whatever I fancy when I'm out. I'm 33 and the way things are going I think when I'm an old lady, eating meat will be seen as old fashioned. I think in 50 years in the UK we will eat a lot less than we do now, with the younger people mostly veggie/vegan. Plenty of my friends are veggie/vegan, I'm happy to eat actually plant based food, but won't eat processed crap (either meat or veggie) the vast majority of my shopping is fresh, single ingredients and I am not changing that. Honestly salmon, rice and vegetables is way better for your body than processed vegan 'burgers'. I think once scientists crack decent vegan cheese and lab grown meat becomes affordable, there will be a big shift.

@littlemisslozza Great point about projecting human emotions onto animals. It’s impossible to know what (whether?) animals ‘think’ or ‘feel’, except that their engagement with the world and with each other is bound to be very different from that of human beings. Obviously we need to be concerned about animal welfare; but we shouldn’t assume that the criteria for the welfare of animals are identical to those of humans.

I think it may be the future for the new generation. It won’t be for me. I do get it, I do think that we should eat less meat etc but it’s too extreme for my liking.
I’ve also found a sort of passive, competitiveness of minimalism and who can strip themselves back the most if that makes sense. If somebody tells me they’re vegan I immediately think “this person takes life very seriously”.

@Florabritannica Same as cats! Apparently they live in the moment. Doesn't mean I don't feel terribly guilty when we go away and I take him to the cattery (so he's safe and fed). He seems fine long term though and within an hour of being home is back in his old routine.