To think veganism is the future?

[Libertynan]

I started eating a plant based diet for Veganuary this year and am still at it.

It has been a revelation. All the family have joined in ( although DH likes a bit of strong cheddar now and again).

We eat some really good meals and don’t feel like we’re missing out on anything.

I have been reading a lot about animal welfare and the effect that intensive farming has on the environment and I can’t see how anyone can ignore these issues.

AIBU to wish that more people would at least eat fewer animal products and try plant based.

I think a lot of vegan materials are bad for the environment and no biodegrade. There are awesome things like hemp (cotton too but that needs a lot of water) Second hand fur and leathers are at least biodegradable. Also we have enough clothes on the planet already so we don't need any new ones but everyone should be able to wear the ones that already exist (iyswim)

Yes, 'vegan leather' is basically.....plastic. Great.

Thanks for letting us know

@MorningStarling

Veganism is not "the future" at all. Humans are omnivores, we eat meat and we eat non-animal products. Eating meat is better for us than solely eating vegetables and so on. The calories earned to calories spent ratio is much better with animals than it is with plants (important to know if you're lost in the wilderness - always hunt animals rather than forage for edible vegetation).

Vegetarianism, and especially veganism, is a highly unnatural behaviour for humans. Much of the harm done to the planet is through unnatural human behaviour, be it chemical weapons or overpopulation. Veganism is just another part of this destructive spectrum.

What is natural human behaviour? As a biologist, I would argue that all human behaviours originate in the basic drive to ensure the survival of one's own DNA, and failing that one which most closely resembles our own. Chemical weapons are therefore a natural human behaviour, as they are a means of defending one tribe from another, and thus increasing the survival chances of our offspring or those of our close relatives. Overpopulation is not a behaviour. Population growth occurs in cycles that always involves an overshoot of the carrying capacity of a habitat. Population falls as space, food supply or some other resource becomes limiting. There is some debate about whether we have reached our carrying capacity.

@Omicrone

I think a lot of vegan materials are bad for the environment and no biodegrade. There are awesome things like hemp (cotton too but that needs a lot of water) Second hand fur and leathers are at least biodegradable. Also we have enough clothes on the planet already so we don't need any new ones but everyone should be able to wear the ones that already exist (iyswim)

Yes, 'vegan leather' is basically.....plastic. Great.

Yeah, the vegan I know is very strict with only consuming plant based foods, but she will wear animal products since the current vegan alternatives are not up to scratch and their impact over all is worse.

-she will wear leather (secondhand if possible) as she feels having a long wearing animal item is better than plastic ones which won't biodegrade but will breakdown faster than leather and be useless. E.g. leather Dr Martens for 10+ years is better than buying plastic boots annually.
-similarly she will buy an occasional ethically sourced wool jumper, so that when washing micro plastics are not released and cause problems in the water systems.

She buys these things thoughtfully and infrequently (as we all should), it really isn't as clean as animal product =bad and vegan product=good, most vegans know this. Sadly the ones who don't tend to shout the loudest.

The planet is dying. The quickest and most direct ways to reduce that is to force conglomerates to stop polluting the oceans and to completely cull the normality of eating meat and dairy daily. The latter is far easier.

Eat turkey at Christmas, eat a steak every now and then sure whatever but the meat industry is literally the leading cause of domestic green house emissions.

People can make fun of vegans all they like and say how much they love meat but there’s no ignoring the damage it’s doing to the planet.

The meat industry is not " literally the leading cause of domestic emissions "

Home heating

It is not necessary to eliminate meat and diary

It is necessary for most to reduce the amount of meat and diary

But it is also a personal choice and sone people might prioritise meat over other types of emissions

I eat very little meat and diary but the nonsense spouted can make me want to give up trying to save the planet

We will never save the planet if people don't understand what they personally need to do

@littlemisslozza I think the main thing is we all.have to draw a line we are happy with. Vegan is better than veggie. Male calfs travelling smaller distances for higher quality rearing is better than long travel times. The uk standards are far better than some abroad. Things don't happen overnight. X

@littlemisslozza sorry, sent too soon! Vegan better than veggie, veggie better than eating less, high quality meat better than poor meat etc. I think a lot has changed in a really short time but people need to be accepting that if the whole world went vegan/veggie overnight it would create it's own problems. X

I eat more soy and vegetable products than I used to and we don't eat much red meat. However, I'm coeliac and I'm not prepared to restrict my diet any further, I do need to be able to eat out at a cafe or at a friend's house occasionally. Lots of meat free products are coated in wheat. I find it very irritating when people who have no allergies or dietary intolerances feel the need to preach about what everyone else should be eating.

@DdraigGoch

We evolved to eat a plant based diet. Fairly recently we started to eat meat and animal products on an occasional basis.

@Muminabun 'fairly recently'? Analysis of Ötzi's stomach indicated that his last meal was an ibex and his intestines contained two further omnivorous meals, chamois and venison. Ötzi lived 5,300 years ago. That isn't recent.

In terms of humans evolution on earth 5 and 10, 000 years is recent. That is what I meant by this comment I would consider anything up to 20 or even 30 thousand years as recent in human evolution. I disagree with you that 5,000 years is not recent.

[quote kikisparks]@NumberTheory there is no evidence that proves plants are sentient whereas animals are proven to be sentient. The majority of humans see a moral difference between plants and animals and would view killing a dog as morally worse than chopping down a tree.[/quote]
If the cut off were sentience then I wouldn't find it arbitrary (though still wouldn't agree with it personally). But science has not proved that all animals are sentient.

In fact science has shown us that some animals have no central nervous system and so, like plants, no capacity for sentience as we understand it. And others have a central nervous system but it is so rudimentary sentience is highly unlikely.

Eat locally, seasonally, and sustainably!
Avoid highly processed foods - especially those fake vegan nonsensical items.

Watch Kiss the ground on Netflix.

I don't think that everyone will ever become vegan, I can't see people giving up their pets.

I would also miss honey on toast too much.

2.6 million years ago is when it's believed that meat became part of the human diet

@Prescottdanni123

Just out of interest, and I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm just genuinely curious. What do you think should happen to farm animals if everybody turned to a vegan diet?

Would you want them to be humanely put down?
Or just allowed to die out gradually?
Or would you still want to see cows/sheep etc in fields? In which case, you you want all breeds of farm animals to carry on existing?

It would probably end up the same way as horses, once ubiquitous, they became much diminished after the introduction of the internal combustion engine.

Horses are still useful though - people keep them to ride them mostly. Who would keep lots of pigs, cows and sheep for the fun of it?

Horses are pets. They’re rarely useful, they’re a hobby 🙄

They're useful to sit on!

(Unlike, say, a goat.)

Frankii 😆

I think the attitude that everyone should be vegan comes from a pretty privileged place.

Yes vegetables and lentils can be cheap but in order to eat a diet that's varied and tastes good, vegans normally need to invest in some fairly pricy products plus need to have the time and knowledge to cook and meal plan. Oh and you need to take supplements on top because a vegan diet doesn't provide all of the nutrients your body needs.

Your average working class/low income parent trying to run a home/feed a family/work shifts doesn't have the lifestyle where they can also feed their family a varied tasty plant based diet

The "veganism is the only ethical choice" argument really makes my piss boil. Like several pp I have IBS and cannot digest cashews, pistachios (😭😭😭goodbye salty barsnacks), most lentils/pulses and anything made with mature soya beans eg flour, milk and most tofu. It is a flaming nightmare trying to find food that doesn't make me unwell, and has taken years of work to get to a point where I stop presenting with bowel cancer symptoms. I was mostly veggie for years but in constant digestive discomfort, and really resent the holier-than-thou looks I get from my veganly woke colleagues when I have animal protein for lunch. The plant-based packed lunch has become de rigour at many academic conferences and there is usually no safe option provided for people who can't do beans, nuts or pulses. Any other kind of disability discrimination and I'm pretty sure there'd be outrage all over the place.

I had cancer and the radiotherapy has left me with a real problem with anything with too much fibre, so a Vegan diet would be intolerable for me. Much as I respect people who are willing to change their diet for the benefit of animals, sadly I just couldn't make it work

@UpturnedUmbrella

Hm I am half with you on this, (and I myself am vegan) in the west I think it is definitely a thing we should be trying to do, however I don’t think it is right for veganism to be for everyone. Certain cultures, Native American groups, different communities, coastal islands etc. rely on animal products to survive and they are not responsible for the destruction of the planet because the way they use animal products is sustainable. If we used their same methods (impossible with our current relationship with animal products) but if we did we would be fine. But due to our intensive farming/absolute destruction and our step away from connecting with food- we should indeed be working towards more plant based/ at least more sustainable farming etc. Humans relationship with food/farming has a really unique impact on the planet which effects more then most realise- I too enjoy reading/researching this topic.

This 100%