To think veganism is the future?

[Libertynan]

I started eating a plant based diet for Veganuary this year and am still at it.

It has been a revelation. All the family have joined in ( although DH likes a bit of strong cheddar now and again).

We eat some really good meals and don’t feel like we’re missing out on anything.

I have been reading a lot about animal welfare and the effect that intensive farming has on the environment and I can’t see how anyone can ignore these issues.

AIBU to wish that more people would at least eat fewer animal products and try plant based.

I'm vegetarian but eat vegan where I can, usually atleast a couple of days a week. I drink oat milk as cows milk grossed me out. I love cheese though and would struggle to give that up as there aren't good subs for cheese yet.

Honestly I never thought I would go vegetarian, but it happened gradually. As I became more aware of the processes in the meat industry, the way the animals were treated, the effect on the environment, I gradually lost all interest and it started making me feel ill so I cut it out completely. There are such good subs for things now too. All the things I didn't want to live without I don't have to, just tonight I've had a 'beef' burger with homemade 'bacon' jam (beyond meat burgers and this isn't bacon lardons made into the bacon jam) - Amazing. And it does make me happy at the end of a delicious meal to know that no animals was harmed for me to enjoy it.

I don't just eat meat subs, but for anyone who thinks they couldn't do it as they love beef burgers, chicken burgers, Sunday roast, spag bol etc.. you would be so surprise at the quality of the subs. Linda McCartney shredded hoisin 'duck' pancakes are amazing, and ALL of the duck is edible (unlike the rock hard parts that used to end up being half the tub from the chinese)

I feel healthier, happier and like I'm doing my bit for the animals, environment and my kids future

My family could never be vegan. We are all dairy free but DC have legume and oat allergies so it's hard enough as it is.

Just out of interest, and I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm just genuinely curious. What do you think should happen to farm animals if everybody turned to a vegan diet?

Would you want them to be humanely put down?
Or just allowed to die out gradually?
Or would you still want to see cows/sheep etc in fields? In which case, you you want all breeds of farm animals to carry on existing?

I drink oat milk as cows milk grossed me out. I love cheese though and would struggle to give that up as there aren't good subs for cheese yet.

lol lol wait until you find out what cheese is made of....

‘Humans are the only animals that treat other animals like utter shit. ‘

I am utterly flummoxed as to how anyone would believe that. Not only must you never have known anyone with a cat, you have also never seen a wildlife documentary.
I also spend quite a bit of time watching the birds in my garden and I am sorry to say their behaviour is often very poor.

Op - yanbu. Modern humans eat too much, unethically reared meat and many of us could do with cutting down. I find some of my vegan friends quite inspirational as cooks and in showing how possible it is to eat well without meat.
However I don’t believe total veganism makes sense in terms of land management and the environment in this climate at least.

I've been vegetarian for over twenty years, but for my health I have to take iron and protein supplements. I'm okay with this because I have strong moral beliefs about eating meat, but I see why others wouldn't be. (And no, not every vegetarian ends up deficient, but some do despite being careful about their diet.)

I can see people eating less meat in future, but can't see it disappearing.

Veganism is the future for some and the rest of us will continue eating like humans. As I have yet to encounter a nice vegan, I'll stick to flesh.

What about butter?

All the vegans I know look unhealthy and about twenty years older than they are.

Lol. These sorts of comments always turn on threads like this.

I probably know more vegans than most people due to things I’m involved in and can confirm this isn’t true. Although vegans generally don’t have Botox as it’s tested on animals so their faces do move....maybe that’s it? 😜

They compartmentalise. At least that’s what my meat eating OH tells me. He eats very little meat or dairy now though so hopefully another year and he’ll be vegan.
Yup. I consider myself an animal lover but successfully compartmentalized for years. If you’d asked me if I thought eating meat, when alternatives were available, was morally acceptable, I’d probably have told you ‘no’ - but nonetheless I was able to switch my brain off and carry on eating meat. Eventually my conscience caught up and I couldn’t do it anymore.

@Omicrone

A plant based diet harms no one, harms no animals.

Actually it does. Unless you are growing everything in your own back garden.

I grow my own veg and countless worms etc have accidentally been murdered by my spade!

@SummaLuvin

I drink oat milk as cows milk grossed me out. I love cheese though and would struggle to give that up as there aren't good subs for cheese yet.

lol lol wait until you find out what cheese is made of....

I'm well aware. I just find the taste of cows milk gross. Cheese doesn't taste like milk directly. As I said I eat vegan where I can and as soon as there's a good sub for cheese I won't look back!

Nope! Not for me, thank you very much, eggs from my own hens, honey from my own bees, I shoot a good deal of the meat I eat, catch much of my own fish too and have no qualms about any of it - it is all free range and as sustainable as possible. Looking forward to tucking into a locally sourced pheasant on Christmas Day

Whereas humans have an abundance of choices which are ignored to absolve themselves of the butchery and wanton advantage taking of beasts that can’t defend themselves

This is an interesting point and where the debate starts to get crunchy. You can argue that it is better for animals to have a healthy life protected from disease and predators followed by as pain-free a death as possible than to live amidst nature red in tooth and claw. You can also scrutinise the alternatives to eating meat and question their environmental and animal welfare credentials (eg the Malaysian tofu manufactured in plants fuelled by burning plastic; the deforestation stimulated by global demand for avocados). Also, as a previous poster has said, you can think about the people who make a living from marginal land and the difficulty of managing that land other than by animal farming.

Maybe when I'm dead and buried.

YES

Eating animals will be criminalised and relegated to history

@Bofthebang

I’m vegan and 100% wish that the “I couldn’t live without meat/cheese” brigade would consider living in a world where animals aren’t killed or exploited just to fulfil people’s wants, rather than needs.

Humans are the only animals that treat other animals like utter shit. I hate it. A plant based diet harms no one, harms no animals. Those who can’t give up cheese or meat (🙄) harm so many living things and are too selfish to admit it or change it.

That's absolutely rubbish.

Monoculture is terrible for wildlife. Animals are killed during harvest, or processing or during transport.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-there-s-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands

www.bbc.com/future/article/20200211-why-the-vegan-diet-is-not-always-green

There's also the human cost - how many workers are mistreated or harmed?

A plant based diet harms no one, harms no animals.

I really wish people would educate themselves about how badly agricultural workers are treated around the world, including forced labour and child labour.

Your fruit and veg may not have killed any animals but the human costs are often considerable

I do think we should eat less meat but I agree with PPs that the future is local sourcing and lab-grown.

I eat much less meat than I used to and when I buy meat I try to make sure I have some assurance regarding welfare standards. I don’t want to give meat up entirely, nor do I think it’s necessary. As noted above, it’s intensive farming that’s the environmental problem not farming in and of itself.

@Fordian

Hmm. Of all places - in The Guardian/ poss Observer, of all places, in the past few weeks, I read an interesting article about veganism; how for their interviewees it hadn't worked out- vitamin deficiency, exhaustion, feeling caught up in a cult where questioning it lead to ostracism etc etc.

I'd go vegetarian but not vegan.

I don't think we're meant to be vegan.

Makes very interesting reading. Their bodies progressively deteriorated but when they reverted to meat there was an immediate recovery. www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/dec/04/abuse-intimidation-death-threats-the-vicious-backlash-facing-fomer-vegans

In another article last year there was a nutrition consultant who found that veganism left her feeling weak so started eating offal and "had never felt better".

@dreamingbohemian

A plant based diet harms no one, harms no animals.

I really wish people would educate themselves about how badly agricultural workers are treated around the world, including forced labour and child labour.

Your fruit and veg may not have killed any animals but the human costs are often considerable

I do think we should eat less meat but I agree with PPs that the future is local sourcing and lab-grown.

I’m very well educated, thank you 👍🏼

Great points @Florabritannica

The avocado trend has actually led to a lot of problems for humans in places like Mexico

I’m a vegetarian who really struggles to give up dairy, despite knowing it would be the right thing to do. I’d rather see very high welfare dairy farming becoming the only thing considered acceptable, and I’d be prepared to pay for it.

Not for me thanks. I buy most of my meat from local small producers and my veg and eggs from the farm 2 miles up the road. Local milk and cheese producers are also within 2 miles - the nearest supermarket is 5 miles away.
I have grave reservations about all the manufactured fake meat and dairy products available in the supermarket and fail to see how they can be environmentally friendly when they are produced in factories and transported around the country to supermarkets in HGVs.
I'll stick with my way of eating thanks.

@Prescottdanni123

Just out of interest, and I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm just genuinely curious. What do you think should happen to farm animals if everybody turned to a vegan diet?

Would you want them to be humanely put down?
Or just allowed to die out gradually?
Or would you still want to see cows/sheep etc in fields? In which case, you you want all breeds of farm animals to carry on existing?

I have a friend who is vegan for environmental reasons - he also considers the environment when making all food choices so won’t buy out of season etc. He would support (in a weird world where he was supreme ruler) the instant slaughter of a huge % of all intensively farmed animals. He knows that won’t happen which is why he’s put no thought into what farmers would do financially or anything like that, but just to answer your hypothetical, his answer would be just kill them all.

Obviously in reality it would be a gradual shift, so supply would reduce slowly to account for reduced demand.