To think veganism is the future?

[Libertynan]

I started eating a plant based diet for Veganuary this year and am still at it.

It has been a revelation. All the family have joined in ( although DH likes a bit of strong cheddar now and again).

We eat some really good meals and don’t feel like we’re missing out on anything.

I have been reading a lot about animal welfare and the effect that intensive farming has on the environment and I can’t see how anyone can ignore these issues.

AIBU to wish that more people would at least eat fewer animal products and try plant based.

All this 'we are built to eat meat as default' stuff is gradually being proved as being wrong.

Archaeologists are now finding evidence that meat eating in early man was actually a rarity as catching them was dangerous, the meat hard to store, it was a rare treat. Mostly early humans were nomadic and grazed on fruits and berries so it was impractical to lug around large carcasses. The issue has been that most archaeological digs have found bones of animals because plant remains degrade.

Man only started to eat more meat once they settled in farms and started domesticating animals. Even then killing them didn't happen that often, more they were harvested for wool/milk.

Yes, we are omnivores, but our bodies can easily thrive on a non meat diet.

Saw this On a BBC doc earlier this year. Fascinating.

I'm all for people being vegan if they want to I know 4 vegetarians and 2 vegans...

I also don’t understand how someone can profess to be an animal lover but eat meat ?
@Libertynan it works both ways, of those vegetarians/vegans that I know...one has a cockatoo in a cage in his front room...the other has just come back from a holiday where they swam with dolphins (in a dolphin park!) and rode on camels I mean WTAF!!

@HavfrueDenizKisi

Unfortunately our planet cannot grow enough crops to feed the whole population if we all went vegan. (Can't remember where I read this, so apologies).

Also soy production has decimated natural landscapes in South America, so becoming vegan doesn't solve environmental issues.

https://wwf.panda.org/discover/ourfocus/fooddpractice/sustainableproduction/soy/

I do think eating far less meat and dairy and having only exceptionally well reared produce when you do, is the best answer.

But it takes more crops to feed an animal than to feed a human!! The soy deforestation is caused by soy for animal feed and would be reduced if people just ate the beans themselves.

( note I'm not advocating for a totally vegan lifestyle just correcting this post)

No. I think we should eat far less meat.

I love the approach at Knepp.

https://www.kneppwildrangemeat.co.uk

We tend to buy from the farm next door to us which is free range and organic.

I have been 95% plant based since reading "Food and Climate change" which looks at all the research from a purely environmental and carbon emissions viewpoint. We have eaten local, grass fed etc etc for years but this really opened my eyes to the impact of our diets in terms of climate change.

Since changing my diet (four months ago) I've probably eaten 1 avocado and used a couple of jars of coconut oil. No almond milk (something pps love to accuse vegans about), although from a climate change perspective even almond milk is less damaging than cow's milk.

I have not been preachy at all, in fact have only just told close family prior to Xmas. I still live and cook for DH and two DC who are omnivores hence the 5% where I may have had a smidgen of butter or cheese. They have eaten almost all of the vegan meals and enjoyed them (they would be brutally honest if not, from past experience).

It's really interesting seeing things from the "other side" as previously I would have made loads of the arguments for eating local etc as pps. Now I just eat plant based without preaching or being "sanctimonious". If someone asks me I have explained my rationale without judging them.

Health wise I feel pretty good but I do take supplements and eat plenty of protein and have researched the types of foods that I need. It's still early days, obviously, but at this point in time I think that I won't be going back.

As a family, we have cut down on our consumption of meat and have also changed some of the remaining meat dishes from red meat to chicken and fish. However: I am anaemic and neither pills nor plants like broccoli appear to help. A portion of lambs liver, however, will work instantly. My DH and DS both have several severe allergies and can only eat very few vegetables raw. Some they cannot eat cooked either. They are also allergic to nuts. I can say straight out that it is not possible for them to be neither vegetarian nor vegan.

Oh, and hint: When people tell you that they have many allergies and that therefore they cannot become neither then it is ableist to go on and on and on and on and on about how they really ought to become vegetarians. Yes, food allergies can be so bad that it is classed as a disabilty. Surveys have shown that it is more stressfull to have a child with severe food allergies than having a child with diabetes.

And before any of you whine about the planet: We do plenty to be environmentally friendly. I am not going to repeat the entire list again.

Now, excuse me, I need to go put the porridge in an improvised hay box to finish cooking in there.

@Hawkins001

"Humans are the only animals that treat other animals like utter shit."

Not to be picky, but when all animals roam, wild, what about the animals that hunt other animals for food ect ?

And hippos. Hippos are herbivores but the angry fuckers are more dangerous than lions!

Greenrubber Look in my fridge and i have cream, butter, cheese and milk. I also have dairy free cream, butter, cheese and milk because my DH has a dairy allergy, doesn't mean he is going to give up meat. Not everyone one sharing a fridge has the same diet.

No, Veganism is an unhealthy fad that will die out. It is also bad for the environment because it takes more resources to grow soya beans and others than it does animals.

It will die out.

@QuestionableMouse

I fail to see how eating food farmed intensively in other countries, that has to be shipped in causing massive pollution is any sort of answer.

Eating locally is the best way imo. Less food miles, and smaller producers tend to be higher welfare. I don't eat much meat but what I do eat comes from a local producer (beef and chicken)

I agree. Smaller mixed farming with land rotation, arable & livestock would be the way to go I would think . Less consumption of a higher welfare meat and dairy. Fewer chemicals incl. fertilizers. Fewer calories and a ban on fast food. Higher seasonal fruit & veg consumption. Increased pulse & legume consumption. More local production.

But the population is growing, and resources limited and the effects on climate critical, so it's really complex.

The NFU have a report which sets out a vision for UK farming to 2040, which I'm going to read now.......

@bestdhever

I'm all for people being vegan if they want to I know 4 vegetarians and 2 vegans...

I also don’t understand how someone can profess to be an animal lover but eat meat ?
@Libertynan it works both ways, of those vegetarians/vegans that I know...one has a cockatoo in a cage in his front room...the other has just come back from a holiday where they swam with dolphins (in a dolphin park!) and rode on camels I mean WTAF!!

Oh - that's definitely not showing any compassion towards animals. I look back at holidays in previous years and yes - have ridden on elephant and camel. We used to keep budgies in a cages. But now we (should) know better.

As a desperate and hopeless ice cream addict and egg addict, I could never be be vegan. I'd rather slit my wrists, there would be no joy in living.

I am so looking forward to The Feast tomorrow. Christmas. Leg of lamb, turkey, custard and cream drowning the Christmas plum pudding. That's truly living. No, veganism is on it's way out. Too many vegans are reverting. It's a dying fad. And thank goodness for that.

@lowlandlucky

Yes I know 🤦‍♀️ but there is obviously someone in your house avoiding dairy which to me is better than nothing

For everyone saying meat substitutes are crap you know you don't have to eat them right? You can eat a healthy whole foods plant based diet and not processed shite

The only supplement a vegan needs is B12 because our bodies make it in the wrong intestine now
No other supplement is needed

I respectfully disagree. Each to their own with food choices - I have no issue with what anyone chooses to eat (as long as we're talking socially acceptable food choices, and not eating people, pets, etc).

However - to me B12 is the "proof" that humans are not designed to be plant based. We will die without B12. You only get it naturally from animal products. Yes, you can take supplements - but we should be trying to get all of our nutritional requirements through our diets naturally. If you have to take a pill to supplement your diet, there's something wrong!

Also, lots of people lose the ability to absorb B12, particularly women & particularly as we get older. If you are on a diet that requires you to take supplements, it will be virtually impossible to diagnose that you aren't absorbing B12. This is because supplements artificially raise blood serum levels regardless of absorption.

@SummaLuvin

Humans are the only animals that treat other animals like utter shit.

erm.... the wild predators that eat their prey when they are literally still alive would beg to differ.

even the way domestic cats treat small mammals and birds is downright cruel.

But this is because they do it instinctively, not consciously. A cat doesn't plan the death of a mouse carefully and actually organise to do it by driving it and it's mates to a large unpleasant building. *Not currently vegan or vegetarian but I have been

YABU. I love meat and dairy. I will eat vegetarian meals fairly often, but I’d couldn’t do it FT. I also hate all the fake meat subs and the oat/soya/rice milk so I could never go vegan.

Also, I'm a really fussy eater. If I went to a plant based diet I would die. I don't think I can successfully live on potatoes, carrots and a bowl of dry cornflakes occasionally! For non-fussy eaters you have no idea how it is to have such a limited choice of foods you like. Other foods make me gag/be sick due to the taste and/or texture. I'd love to eat a wide and varied diet - but I physically can't.I rarely go out for meals as a result, because I can't stand the embarrassment of ordering everything plain with none of the extras etc.

I was vegetarian for a couple of years and did eat vegan at times both because of environmental concerns. I learned a lot of new recipes and cooking techniques that I've carried forward to this day.
However I disliked the self righteousness of the propagandists (these are attracted to any -ism.) I also spent time in a part of the UK which is excellent for grazing but not productive for grains or much else. This really challenged arguments I'd been reading around soya and feedlots. And I recognised localism.
Anyway I moved back to free range meat and eggs and must say felt a lot more energetic despite my previous careful wholefood diet.
I do worry about kids I hear going vegan, like I worry about a lot of kids diets! They often aren't making the best choices.

Yes KloppKrazy I find more and more and more vegans and vegetarians are reverting and leaving veganism in droves.

It really is dying out.

There's cholesterol from animals in tv, laptop and computer screens also... animal bi products are everywhere. 🤷‍♀️

@GoGoGretaDoll

I am more and more convinced that we have to start eating super-local diets. The problem isn't animals, it's shipping animals (and plants) all over the world and over-breeding animals to meet global demand.

I don't say that lightly - I tried the Fife diet a few years ago which was a movement to only eat stuff grown within 10 miles of where you lived. It was brutal in the winter - and on the back of it, I cancelled my veg box - because this part of Scotland produces so little in the winter. (The winter actually isn't the problem though if you do it properly, it's the early spring which was once known as the Hungry Time.)

But anyway. If we all limited ourselves to eating what can be produced on our doorsteps and that only, we'd be fine. For me, that would be a diet based around venison and lamb and lovely well-reared dairy, with orchard fruits, soft fruits in the summer, and root veg. Plenty oats and tatties. No citrus or coffee (why does no-one ever talk about coffee?) or anything particularly exotic or furrin.

I'd be alright for citrus. Believe it or not lemon trees do grow well in North Wales just as long as you bring them in from the frost (unheated porch for me).

Yanbu.

But I always find it weird people draw the line at veggie - the welfare of producing dairy is terrible, personally I'd rather eat a truly free range animal which is killed humanely. Wild boar & venison.

Rather than dairy where the cow is repeatedly impregnated and the male calf killed soon after (so not very vegetarian if an animal is still being slaughtered imo.)

I endorse veganism but think it's more realistic to focus on reducing mass cheap consumption (like KFC and £3 chickens and caged eggs) then eating less more locally. Unfortunately this would mean a mental shift that eating meat is a luxury that costs money that not everyone can afford, not a right to affordability. Unless we want a government offsetting this which seems counterintuitive to reducing climate change.

To the few meat eaters who seem to be rubbing their hands over the fact that 'veganism is dying out' - have you been under a rock? It just really isn't. There's been an explosion in vegan food, the plant based sector is the biggest growing, which is why even the biggest meat producers going like Richmond are doing vegan sausages. Now a lot of those people aren't going to be just vegan necessarily, but people are adapting and diversifying their diets, realising it's OK to eat alternatives and make swaps and substitutions, and to be healthier and environmentally friendlier for it. Everyone I know is doing something, whether that's drinking oat milk cause it's less bloating, or eating the new Richmond sausages, or the whopper at burger king... Etc. Etc. It is a welcome and growing diversification of meals, particularly as Brexit has opened the floodgates to cheap meat imports from all over the world. Buying British is a vanishing option

I did veganuary this year and was surprised at how easy it is to eat vegan. It didn’t work for me long terms as I’m naturally low in iron and B12, but I rarely eat meat at all now and to be honest don’t miss it. One thing that really shocked me was how cruel the dairy industry is. I think most people assume the cows graze in a field all day and then the farmer comes and milks them and off they go, sadly it’s not like that at all.

Reducing meat and dairy consumption substantially is something I am fully on board with. Veganism for all - absolutely not.