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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taking a job in a tiny business when pregnant

455 replies

Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 13:13

Ok so I know IABU but venting a little.
I took on my first FT employee in July this year (already have 1 x part timer). Three weeks in she disclosed that she is pregnant and is now off on Mat leave.

It’s an industry where recruiting is super difficult at the moment so getting a mat leave cover is likely to be practically impossible.

I know it’s her right etc, and of course have treated her fairly and she will be returning whenever she chooses to return.

But if I’m honest - it’s absolutely screwed our plans for any growth this year (on top of covid troubles).

While I know it’s “right” would you take on a job in a small business when pregnant?

Am prepared to get flamed here (hence the NC).

OP posts:
Original poster
Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 22:04

@yourestandingonmyneck thank you. Honestly it’s super appreciated xx

OP posts:
SpilltheTea · 23/12/2021 22:04

It's a shit thing to do to a small business. I'd have replaced her during her probation. It would be completely different for a large company.

StFrancisdeCompostela · 23/12/2021 22:05

@BellatricksStrange

Honestly the amount of people who talk about 'businesses' as if these are just magical things that appear, and don't have human employers behind them, is just baffling. It's like scrimp and scrape, put in the countless hours and stress to open a business, but dare to complain when an employee screws you over, and you're the devil incarnate.
An employee hasn’t screwed OP over. OP can’t grow her business as fast as she wants because it currently isn’t adequately resourced to support that growth. That isn’t the fault of OP’s employee, and no employee owes it to their employer to put their life on hold for the sake of the business (especially not for a second job paying what this one is…)
Blossom987 · 23/12/2021 22:06

@phishy

It’s a question on the legality of it.
What you are asking is 100% discrimination. So no it wouldn’t be legal.

If OP ended her probation she would have to prove (if employee took it to tribunal) that she wasn’t discriminating against her by only ending her probation for pregnancy/maternity reasons. Not sure how she could do that given she’s not mentioned any other issues.

For arguments sake if OP had proof of something that would be considered gross misconduct (stealing etc) I expect it would be legal and not seen as discriminatory. Because you would sack anyone who did that, not just a pregnant woman.

fucketyfuckwit · 23/12/2021 22:06

Oh OP I do feel for you. I run a small business too and struggle to find people with relevant experience or interest who would be good at the role.

That's really shit! How pregnant was she when she applied? . If she was fully in the know that's totally rubbish.

There does need to be more support for small businesses for this.

It's a difficult one, but I expect you will be more cautious of that age bracket from now on.

Original poster
Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 22:07

@StFrancisdeCompostela out of interest what do you think a second job should pay?

OP posts:
Original poster
Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 22:08

@fucketyfuckwit she interviewed very late July. She had her baby on 1st December.

OP posts:
Blossom987 · 23/12/2021 22:08

@SpilltheTea

It's a shit thing to do to a small business. I'd have replaced her during her probation. It would be completely different for a large company.
And how would you prove to a tribunal that you weren’t illegally discriminating against a pregnant woman?
BurbageBrook · 23/12/2021 22:09

Shocked by the number of employers suggesting illegal behaviour on this thread. Hope you get taken to court if you ever do this.

PurplePansy05 · 23/12/2021 22:11

OP, ultimately it is frustrating for you, but it is what it is. She may well have had a good reason for leaving her previous employer now and she may prove to be your best and most loyal employee when she's back. Obviously the laws are there for a good reason, we all know that.

I understand it will be tough on you, but honestly it will be just another few months of longer hours. Unfortunately that's the reality of running a business and you need to prepared this won't be the first or the last time you need to absorb someone else's duties. This could happen for a variety of reasons. Stay calm, see what happens, give her a chance. In a year or less you might have a lot more time to yourself than you ever expected, she might be fab.

IntermittentParps · 23/12/2021 22:12

My point was, in the current market - no one wants a temp role. Could I make it more attractive my saying “oh it’s likely to go permanent?” Yes. Would that be ethical? No.

My point is, you agonise over the morality of stating clearly in a recruitment ad/process that it’s a temp job that may possibly go permanent, but do not apply the same stringent moral standards to your feelings towards an existing member of permanent staff.
Others have pointed out possible ways for you to recruit that would put someone in place now while still protecting the employee on ML but you don’t seem interested in them.

I agree with others, you don’t exactly make me feel like supporting small businesses as a customer.

UnshakenNeedsStirring · 23/12/2021 22:13

Do you not have a probationary period? You shouldve got rid of her during that time.

Original poster
Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 22:13

@IntermittentParps because my feelings have literally no influence on someone’s life. My actions could have huge ones.

OP posts:
KeranaCosmonauts · 23/12/2021 22:14

@Fromageetvino I haven't read the whole thread as most of the comments are sickening tbh.
I sincerely hope that those who have admitted to acting illegally end up sued one day. If you think it's costing you having women on mat leave just wait until you have to pay out tends of thousands of pounds in settlements when an employment tribunal gets involved.
And btw, big corporations were small businesses too when they started out. You don't deserve special treatment because you're a "small business".

WouldIBeATwat · 23/12/2021 22:15

@UnshakenNeedsStirring

Do you not have a probationary period? You shouldve got rid of her during that time.
Please don’t give employment law advice when you clearly have no clue @UnshakenNeedsStirring

A probationary period is a red herring. anyone can be sacked within 24 months of employment for any non-discriminatory reason.

Original poster
Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 22:18

@KeranaCosmonauts very unlikely as I act within the law (and not just to the letter of).

OP posts:
Blossom987 · 23/12/2021 22:22

@UnshakenNeedsStirring

Do you not have a probationary period? You shouldve got rid of her during that time.
Illegal. Funny how some people are happy to risk their fragile small businesses being taken to tribunal which would likely result in thousands of pounds worth of compensation being given to the woman they have discriminated against, rather than accept that pregnancy is one of many of the additional costs that comes with employing staff - new employees and longer standing ones.

If people would rather do that than see the bigger picture of how pregnant women / mothers can be long term assets then I question the business sense of the owner.

WouldIBeATwat · 23/12/2021 22:26

Wouldn’t have been unlawful (not illegal) if there were a clear, non-discriminatory, reason to.

UnshakenNeedsStirring · 23/12/2021 22:28

I do feel for you OP. Its a struggle for small businesses. It would be a shame if she knew she was pregnant but kept it quiet just to get the job and benefits. Hope you manage to find a solution
.

Original poster
Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 22:30

@UnshakenNeedsStirring

I do feel for you OP. Its a struggle for small businesses. It would be a shame if she knew she was pregnant but kept it quiet just to get the job and benefits. Hope you manage to find a solution .
Thank you. She would have been around 24 - 28 weeks.
OP posts:
TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 23/12/2021 22:32

[quote Fromageetvino]@CaptSkippy I honestly didn’t expect her to be on mat leave after four months - yeah my naivety there.

But yeah - ok, I’ll take away my flexible working, working around school runs, not being contacted out of hours as a policy, etc. Is that better?[/quote]
It might be sensible to be less family friendly to be honest.

I get the venting. It's massively inconvenient. C'est la vie! 🤬

Could you offer 12 month FTC as a maternity cover? Could you afford 1 months notice if they both overlapped and your current employee came back ahead of schedule? So 12 months with a possibility of a perm role at the end of it. If your business grows you could have two roles by then? Or your current person wants to come back part time etc etc. a lot can change.

Re the current employee. If she already has a toddler she is quite probably not going to come back very quickly unless she has a lot of family support. £30k is not going to pay for two kids to be in childcare.

UnshakenNeedsStirring · 23/12/2021 22:36

@Fromageetvino in which case she knew she was pregnant but didnt declare it.
I really dont know what to say.

KeranaCosmonauts · 23/12/2021 22:41

@Fromageetvino I didn't just mean you, plenty of others on this thread have outright admitted to not hiring women of "childbearing age" or that they would fire this woman.
I've gone back and read your posts and yeah, it sounds like you just didn't plan properly for what is a fairly predictable thing. And no, it isn't that uncommon for someone to be pregnant when they start a job. You say you're just venting and it wouldn't affect your actions but clearly it would, because you wouldn't have hired this woman if you knew she was pregnant - hence acting illegally.

Original poster
Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 22:47

[quote KeranaCosmonauts]@Fromageetvino I didn't just mean you, plenty of others on this thread have outright admitted to not hiring women of "childbearing age" or that they would fire this woman.
I've gone back and read your posts and yeah, it sounds like you just didn't plan properly for what is a fairly predictable thing. And no, it isn't that uncommon for someone to be pregnant when they start a job. You say you're just venting and it wouldn't affect your actions but clearly it would, because you wouldn't have hired this woman if you knew she was pregnant - hence acting illegally. [/quote]
Never said that - and that didn’t happen. So nope not acted illegally.
Honestly truth - has she benefitted and put me at a disadvantage- yes,

Wild this matter if I was a larger company. No,

Hence my question

OP posts:
Blossom987 · 23/12/2021 22:52

@WouldIBeATwat

Wouldn’t have been unlawful (not illegal) if there were a clear, non-discriminatory, reason to.
Op hasn’t given any other reason though. Unless you are suggesting she makes one up. Not sure how she would prove it was non-discriminatory in a tribunal though.