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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taking a job in a tiny business when pregnant

455 replies

Fromageetvino · 23/12/2021 13:13

Ok so I know IABU but venting a little.
I took on my first FT employee in July this year (already have 1 x part timer). Three weeks in she disclosed that she is pregnant and is now off on Mat leave.

It’s an industry where recruiting is super difficult at the moment so getting a mat leave cover is likely to be practically impossible.

I know it’s her right etc, and of course have treated her fairly and she will be returning whenever she chooses to return.

But if I’m honest - it’s absolutely screwed our plans for any growth this year (on top of covid troubles).

While I know it’s “right” would you take on a job in a small business when pregnant?

Am prepared to get flamed here (hence the NC).

OP posts:
blueberryporridge · 27/12/2021 08:11

As a small business owner, I feel your pain, OP. In my case, I had lined up 12 months of contracts to pay the salary of my employee coming back to work after maternity leave. She returned and worked for a short period then put in her notice which I think she had been planning all along. I had to her honour the contracts for the long term health of my business but couldn’t recruit a replacement due to being in a very niche sector. Upshot was that I had to return to work more than full time myself (I had two very young children and was only working part time at that point) and pay a nanny to look after my children while I slogged through 1.5 workloads for a year and hardly saw them.

And I still don’t understand the logic of accruing annual leave while you are on paid maternity leave - so expensive for very small businesses to cover.

Anyway, the upshot was that I changed my business model after that and now do not employ staff but only work with other freelancers.

The current maternity leave provisions do not work for very small businesses.

BellatricksStrange · 27/12/2021 15:13

@WouldIBeATwat

And just by the by, some of British maternity laws are absolutely crazy. What reason on the world can there be for an employee to accrue leave while off on maternity or long term sick leave? Holiday pay is so that employees should be able to take a holiday after working all year. Why the AF does the employer have to fund heir holiday after being off for the year?

Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and not to do so would be discriminatory.

What does that even mean in this context? What is the logic behind accruing holiday pay while not working?
Circlesandtriangles · 27/12/2021 15:21

Like, you may not have found someone anyway and you've known she's pregnant for ages. Of course it's not unreasonable for her to apply for a job and accept it if she's qualified and competent.

Life happens - pregnancy, bereavement, serious illness- and as an employer that's part of what you have to deal with having a human workforce. Pour your energies into solving for your staffing issues.

WouldIBeATwat · 27/12/2021 16:06

What does that even mean in this context? What is the logic behind accruing holiday pay while not working?

In simple terms, you cannot be discriminated against for being pregnant (female). So the only thing that can reduce during mat leave is pay. Any other benefits must be maintained including annual leave, bonuses, any private health cover, pension, company car and so on. It’s not necessarily based on logic: you cannot be discriminated against and that is that.

BellatricksStrange · 27/12/2021 16:44

@WouldIBeATwat

What does that even mean in this context? What is the logic behind accruing holiday pay while not working?

In simple terms, you cannot be discriminated against for being pregnant (female). So the only thing that can reduce during mat leave is pay. Any other benefits must be maintained including annual leave, bonuses, any private health cover, pension, company car and so on. It’s not necessarily based on logic: you cannot be discriminated against and that is that.

I understand the technical meaning behind the words. But it's just baffling. Nobody's being discriminated against for being pregnant, but holiday pay should be a direct recompense for work done. I'd say the same thing for anyone off work, the reason is simply irrelevant. If you don't work, you don't need a holiday - least not one paid by the employer. But alas the law's an ass.
Treehau5 · 27/12/2021 16:52

I think it's great personally, but then who wouldn't like 6 months full pay, 3 months half pay and then loads of leave to take before returning as well- so probably around 7ish months of full pay.

WouldIBeATwat · 27/12/2021 17:23

@Treehau5

I think it's great personally, but then who wouldn't like 6 months full pay, 3 months half pay and then loads of leave to take before returning as well- so probably around 7ish months of full pay.
Very very few companies pay 6 months full pay or anything like it.
Treehau5 · 27/12/2021 17:32

I know I did though and loved it. I'd stick with freelancers though OP if this is impacting your business so much.

Somanysocks · 27/12/2021 18:01

Yanbu obviously, as a small business owner I totally get where you're coming from. People saying yabu have obviously not run their own companies with all the stresses that brings.

Blossom987 · 27/12/2021 21:02

There are many types of leave entitlement available for both sexes (sick leave, bereavement, paternity, jury service etc). They vary in being paid / unpaid but none of them require you to reduce the amount of annual leave you are entitled to because you weren’t physically in work on those days. Because you are still employed, just like with maternity leave.

So those complaining about women on maternity leave accruing annual leave, just wondering how long you think someone has to be off work for before they have to give up their entitlement?

Do men have to give up any annual leave after taking two weeks paternity leave? What if they also take 4 weeks unpaid parental leave on top of that too? Or 6 weeks jury service?

Should we calculate every employees time off work for any reason (excluding annual leave) and pro rata it and deduct from annual leave? If you want people to have annual leave reduced for not actually working then it needs to apply to all, not just women. Unless you only like discriminating against women of course.

Blossom987 · 27/12/2021 21:06

If someone is off sick for a month do they lose any annual leave? What if they are off for 3 months? Six? The line needs to be drawn somewhere.

tarasmalatarocks · 27/12/2021 21:57

@blueberryporridge. I did the same too— once bitten, twice shy.

WouldIBeATwat · 27/12/2021 22:02

@Blossom987

If someone is off sick for a month do they lose any annual leave? What if they are off for 3 months? Six? The line needs to be drawn somewhere.
No they don’t. They aren’t entitled to bank holidays back (usually) but accrue annual leave at the same rate.

There are plenty of employment tribunal cases confirming this.

Whatsdamatta · 28/12/2021 08:26

Agree with @tarasmalatarocks and @blueberryporridge
This thread will probably divide neatly between people who have employed other people and those who haven’t.
If you have, you’ll know the challenges of finding suitable employees.

DontBlameMe79 · 28/12/2021 08:29

@Whatsdamatta

Agree with *@tarasmalatarocks and @blueberryporridge* This thread will probably divide neatly between people who have employed other people and those who haven’t. If you have, you’ll know the challenges of finding suitable employees.
I think this is spot on. Employing and managing people is an absolute nightmare when you get a high maintenance one. I don’t think that’s clear until it’s happened to you.
nosyupnorth · 28/12/2021 08:55

Signing up for a job, doing it, and then later going on maternity leave is fine; but she shouldn't have taken a job when already planning to go on leave rather than do the work.

Yes she has the right too, but that doesn't mean she hasn't exercised that right in a manner which is deeply inconsiderate of having also agreed to taken on responsibilities in a small business. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it is ethical and good. Some people are so concerned with their 'rights' that they have no consideration for others.

Hope478 · 28/12/2021 11:16

I'd take a job at a "small business", pregnant, absolutely. I wouldn't think "oooo ASDA is a nice large corporation that won't be affected by my mat leave" or "I don't want this small business to suffer because I'm growing a little human".

I put myself first, just like my employer puts their business first. Everyone is replaceable in a work environment, I have more loyalty to myself, obviously. Confused

If I want to take a job anywhere, I'm not weighing up whether it's best for the business, I'm weighing up whether it's best for me! I'm not a business owner, so that's your problem not mine, tbf.

Big middle finger up to those that said they would let the employee go during their probation PURELY FOR BEING PREGNANT and give a different excuse.

DontBlameMe79 · 28/12/2021 12:21

@Hope478

I'd take a job at a "small business", pregnant, absolutely. I wouldn't think "oooo ASDA is a nice large corporation that won't be affected by my mat leave" or "I don't want this small business to suffer because I'm growing a little human".

I put myself first, just like my employer puts their business first. Everyone is replaceable in a work environment, I have more loyalty to myself, obviously. Confused

If I want to take a job anywhere, I'm not weighing up whether it's best for the business, I'm weighing up whether it's best for me! I'm not a business owner, so that's your problem not mine, tbf.

Big middle finger up to those that said they would let the employee go during their probation PURELY FOR BEING PREGNANT and give a different excuse.

I’m thinking you’ve probably never run a small business. 😂😂😂
newname12345 · 28/12/2021 12:41

@Hope478 With a small business you have a greater impact on the profitability of the business which is likely to have a direct impact on your pay rises, any bonuses and even continued employment. Hence not so easy to distance yourself from what is best for the business.

Uniforn · 28/12/2021 12:55

Yikes this has been on a few websites now, I'd say the employee is fairly likely to know it's about them if they see any of them, quite a few identifying details. Hope she does to be honest!

Hope478 · 28/12/2021 12:56

@DontBlameMe79 I've not run a small business and I don't intend to

Hope478 · 28/12/2021 13:01

[quote newname12345]@Hope478 With a small business you have a greater impact on the profitability of the business which is likely to have a direct impact on your pay rises, any bonuses and even continued employment. Hence not so easy to distance yourself from what is best for the business.[/quote]
So no one who wants kids or is disabled, or planning any time off work should work for a small business, because of the above?

newname12345 · 28/12/2021 13:25

@Hope478 *So no one who wants kids or is disabled, or planning any time off work should work for a small business, because of the above?"

I didn't say that all. No idea what someone being disabled has anything to do with this???

Hope478 · 28/12/2021 13:39

[quote newname12345]**@Hope478* So no one who wants kids or is disabled, or planning any time off work should work for a small business, because of the above?"

I didn't say that all. No idea what someone being disabled has anything to do with this???[/quote]
Because you're saying that people who may need time off work (such as me, I have a disability that means I sometimes need a lot of sick leave) should be thinking about how time off affects a small business and you've listed the ways in which it does

I have taken as much sick leave as I have mat leave.

Should I work for a large company to avoid this affecting a small business?

Onlyrainbows · 28/12/2021 14:10

Oh wow it made it to the Sun www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/4348629/small-business-employee-pregnant-three-week-hired-crippled/