Taking a job in a tiny business when pregnant

[Fromageetvino]

Ok so I know IABU but venting a little.
I took on my first FT employee in July this year (already have 1 x part timer). Three weeks in she disclosed that she is pregnant and is now off on Mat leave.

It’s an industry where recruiting is super difficult at the moment so getting a mat leave cover is likely to be practically impossible.

I know it’s her right etc, and of course have treated her fairly and she will be returning whenever she chooses to return.

But if I’m honest - it’s absolutely screwed our plans for any growth this year (on top of covid troubles).

While I know it’s “right” would you take on a job in a small business when pregnant?

Am prepared to get flamed here (hence the NC).

cross posted - I had RTFT when I started posting

@Tianatiers

YANBU. When I was TTC I went for a interview with a small business. He asked me right at the end of the interview whether I was planning to start a family any time soon for the reason that it would be a nightmare for his business if I did. I was quite taken aback at his question and I found myself lying through my teeth because I really wanted the job. When I was offered the job though I turned it down because I knew if I did fall pregnant, having to tell him would have been awful after lying in the interview. I bet men never have that problem.

@Tianatiers It is illegal for employers to ask you this. Sure it would be very inconvenient for them, but that does not give them the right to break the law.

@TractorAndHeadphones

Exactly and if OP had not advertised the job as family-friendly than this woman would no doubt have taken another job. One that actually is.

Yikes this thread, the reason women often don't say at the outset is because they know they're less likely to get the job, and throughout the probation period. If your business cannot withstand someone going on maternity leave, which could also be someone on long term sick which is completely out of their hands, then perhaps time to go back to using freelancers.

[quote CaptSkippy]@TractorAndHeadphones

Exactly and if OP had not advertised the job as family-friendly than this woman would no doubt have taken another job. One that actually is.[/quote]
The job isn’t advertised as family friendly. It’s advertised as what it is. Flexible hours, remote working,

Yes this does appeal to mums of course, but good.

[quote Fromageetvino]@Fanmango
Don’t really think it’s that hard to understand.
Two roles available to you

1. Role - permanent
2. Role - could be six weeks, could be 1 year

Which do you choose? When uncertainty has ruled our lives for the past two years.[/quote]
Unless the employee has already told you when they want to return then businesses should assume it will be the full year and recruit cover for that accordingly. If the woman wants to return early from mat leave they have to give 8 weeks notice but your mat cover would probably be on a months notice anyway, or whatever your contract would be. So you would just have to let them go early if you couldn’t afford to keep them on. Anybody can actually be given notice in the first two years of employment for any reason (unless discriminatory of course).

However given it was in your plan to recruit a second FT person quite quickly you are in a strong position to say there is potential for the mat cover role to turn permanent anyway. A lot of incentive for the mat cover to do well in the role.

@Blossom987 I don’t want to go into masses of detail, but they indicated it was unlikely to be the full year (and I guess as it’s SMP even more so).

I would really hate to be in a position to offer a role to someone under the guise that it “could go permanent” and then get rid a few months later.

@Tabbacus it can. I’m just a little gutted. She did get through her probation - I habe t in any way discrimated against her. I’m just sounding off and having maybe a pity party.

She already has a child so presumably it’s not a massive surprise she’s having another one. What’s the difference between her taking the job pregnant or falling pregnant the first month. I had secondary infertility and miscarriages, I also changed jobs after my first child was born. I wasn’t prepared to stick in a job I hated for 5 years hoping a pregnancy would stick, and if it never happened, i’d have had the double disappointment of a stagnated career.

@Pawprintpaper

She already has a child so presumably it’s not a massive surprise she’s having another one. What’s the difference between her taking the job pregnant or falling pregnant the first month. I had secondary infertility and miscarriages, I also changed jobs after my first child was born. I wasn’t prepared to stick in a job I hated for 5 years hoping a pregnancy would stick, and if it never happened, i’d have had the double disappointment of a stagnated career.

Sorry for your losses. I’ve been there. It’s shit.

Bit to honestly answer your question on the difference.
One is falling pregnant shortly into the job.
The other is taking a job in a tiny business, knowing that it will likely take a huge toll on the individuals that work there (all two of them) when you are six months pregnant. And coming from a large organisation where they could have absorbed the cost easily (which I still can’t quite work out).

What's the industry? Everything sounds so convoluted. I've done fairly specialised roles and I've never had to have so much training, especially for that type of salary.

I would really hate to be in a position to offer a role to someone under the guise that it “could go permanent” and then get rid a few months later.

If it’s clearly offered as a temp role with only a possibility of going permanent, I really don’t think it’s a problem. Personally I’ve happily taken on roles presented as such.
Funny that you’d feel bad about doing this to someone but don’t mind about complaining about a permanent staff member taking their perfectly common and legal ML.

Sorry, OP. I misunderstood. I thought you had advertised it as family-friendly. This makes a slight difference, but doesn't change the fact that these things are always a risk.

@IntermittentParps

I would really hate to be in a position to offer a role to someone under the guise that it “could go permanent” and then get rid a few months later.

If it’s clearly offered as a temp role with only a possibility of going permanent, I really don’t think it’s a problem. Personally I’ve happily taken on roles presented as such.
Funny that you’d feel bad about doing this to someone but don’t mind about complaining about a permanent staff member taking their perfectly common and legal ML.

To be fair, me having a whinge on MN is not really the same as tempting someone away from a good role on the promise of something temp to perm. And then getting rid after 2 months.

My point was, in the current market - no one wants a temp role. Could I make it more attractive my saying “oh it’s likely to go permanent?” Yes. Would that be ethical? No.

@Terribleluck

What's the industry? Everything sounds so convoluted. I've done fairly specialised roles and I've never had to have so much training, especially for that type of salary.

I’m not going to mention the industry. But yes three months before someone is up to speed enough to handle client accounts. It’s part technical and part understanding the cleint. At a higher salary yes I’d expect someone to get in quicker - but that’s not where I am at. This is second job type territory

Honestly it’s starting to sound like a load of excuses why you have not been able to arrange any sort of maternity cover, and the decisions you’ve made not to do so have impacted your business and are being blamed on this poor woman.

You’ve known since her 3rd week (august at the latest?) that she would be taking mat leave around now. What steps did you take between August and December to cover her leave / ensure you don’t have to turn down any contracts?

You believe nobody wants to take on a mat cover role because she could return early and you would have to let the mat cover go - but this could happen during anybody’s maternity leave no matter how long they have worked with you for. i appreciate it wouldn’t be nice if you did have to let someone go early but that is within your rights as an employer and should be what’s best for your business. It’s not your pregnant employees fault if you don’t want to do this because you would feel bad.

Did you actually try to recruit maternity cover or have you just made assumptions nobody would want to do it?

You didn’t want to risk taking on other permanent staff despite turning down a potential large contract and a tender, and it also being in your plan as early as March 2022 (so only 3 months into the mat leave) because you have said you are risk adverse and again would feel bad if you had to let someone go. But this is your business remember, the very thing you are criticising the pregnant woman for impacting.

The industry is also supposedly short of candidates that makes recruitment hard despite having 100 applications and 4 to choose from when you recruited back in the summer.

And now you’re saying she’s indicated she’s unlikely to take the full year so you’re also still feeling this resentful and inconvenienced when she might be back in a few months anyway. She could end up staying many many years once she’s back. Isn’t a good candidate in a hard to recruit for industry worth waiting a few more months for?

@Blossom987

Honestly it’s starting to sound like a load of excuses why you have not been able to arrange any sort of maternity cover, and the decisions you’ve made not to do so have impacted your business and are being blamed on this poor woman.

You’ve known since her 3rd week (august at the latest?) that she would be taking mat leave around now. What steps did you take between August and December to cover her leave / ensure you don’t have to turn down any contracts?

You believe nobody wants to take on a mat cover role because she could return early and you would have to let the mat cover go - but this could happen during anybody’s maternity leave no matter how long they have worked with you for. i appreciate it wouldn’t be nice if you did have to let someone go early but that is within your rights as an employer and should be what’s best for your business. It’s not your pregnant employees fault if you don’t want to do this because you would feel bad.

Did you actually try to recruit maternity cover or have you just made assumptions nobody would want to do it?

You didn’t want to risk taking on other permanent staff despite turning down a potential large contract and a tender, and it also being in your plan as early as March 2022 (so only 3 months into the mat leave) because you have said you are risk adverse and again would feel bad if you had to let someone go. But this is your business remember, the very thing you are criticising the pregnant woman for impacting.

The industry is also supposedly short of candidates that makes recruitment hard despite having 100 applications and 4 to choose from when you recruited back in the summer.

And now you’re saying she’s indicated she’s unlikely to take the full year so you’re also still feeling this resentful and inconvenienced when she might be back in a few months anyway. She could end up staying many many years once she’s back. Isn’t a good candidate in a hard to recruit for industry worth waiting a few more months for?

Your time line isn’t correct. I had less notice than that (much less).

My plan to take someone on in March was made before the employee started and was part of a longer growth plan. That is scuppered. As an individual not her fault at all. However had I chose. Any other one of my four top choices, o wouldn’t be in this position. Does that make me a little gutted, honestly - yes.

Yes I would rather quietly have a bit of a whinge online than let down an actual real life person.
And as mentioned - the training etc of them is hard. That’s a lot of effort for a tiny business (who do you think does this - while also actually doing the work)? If they only then stay for a few months. Then it will start again with the returnee.

She might be back - she might not. That’s her prerogative.

What will happen in reality - I’ll cover with freelance, we will put growth plans on hold and will carry on.

But just for a second. Imagine your “growth plans” where out on hold due to this. Would you rate a little - probably.

Am also shocked at how many people are not aware of how good a jobs market it is for skilled employees. So if you are unhappy -now is the time to move.

[quote Freecuthbert]@BellatricksStrange

How the hell is this employee a CF as you put it? And of course it is morally wrong to not hire someone because they're pregnant. Pregnant women have to eat, put a roof over their heads, pay bills etc too... not saying you have to hire someone because they are pregnant, but to turn someone down who you would have otherwise hired if they weren't pregnant, that's messed up. Illegal for good reason.[/quote]
Employers also need to put a roof over their heads, eat and pay bills. It's not morally wrong to not hire someone who will cause you a net loss and untold extra hours of work. That is just prudent and common sense.

Honestly the amount of people who talk about 'businesses' as if these are just magical things that appear, and don't have human employers behind them, is just baffling. It's like scrimp and scrape, put in the countless hours and stress to open a business, but dare to complain when an employee screws you over, and you're the devil incarnate.

You can complain. It does not give you the right to break the law.

@BellatricksStrange

Honestly the amount of people who talk about 'businesses' as if these are just magical things that appear, and don't have human employers behind them, is just baffling. It's like scrimp and scrape, put in the countless hours and stress to open a business, but dare to complain when an employee screws you over, and you're the devil incarnate.

Thank you: I think there is an assumption that employers are those big rich overlords with all the power.

I’ve not mentioned as not relevant (and know where the comments would go) but the employee lives in a large home in an area most of us could only dream of living in. Oldest getting ready for private prep etc,
Me renting a big standard terrace in a nice enough area,

I am a human being behind it.

@RoyalFamilyFan

You can complain. It does not give you the right to break the law.

Is that aimed at me? Not sure where I’ve broken the law?

@BellatricksStrange

Honestly the amount of people who talk about 'businesses' as if these are just magical things that appear, and don't have human employers behind them, is just baffling. It's like scrimp and scrape, put in the countless hours and stress to open a business, but dare to complain when an employee screws you over, and you're the devil incarnate.

But that's part of the risk when you employ anyone. They could leave after 3 months, be hit by a car and need a lot of time off, become pregnant, in a small business is this really that much different if it's straight away or a year down the line? If you wouldn't be able to withstand any of those then perhaps it's not the right time to take on employees. Just because someone works for a small business it doesn't mean they have the attachment/ambition that you have, it might just be a job to them.