The mental load is for life, not just for Christmas!

[BillyWilliamTheThird]

We’re a week into the holidays - it really doesn’t matter which holidays as it’s the same every time - and I’m already fully worn down by the mental load of doing all the thinking for everyone.

DH does do things, but only if asked. He has zero initiative. Every day he’ll ask me what we’re doing and what’s for dinner. Dishwasher, picking up clutter, laundry, kids getting clean; none of these things happen unless I specifically request them. Why am I the guardian of Getting Shit Done?

This isn’t a monster I’ve created and am only now complaining about having to live with either. I do not martyr myself on the pyre of family life. We discuss this regularly, I frequently down tools, and my default response is “I have no idea darling.” It’s not as though he doesn’t know how much it pisses me off. I’m also not a massive clean freak with high standards; I work twice the hours he does during term time (I’m a teacher, he’s a TA) so I don’t have time to be fussy about stuff.

For context he is mildly dyslexic and 100% uses this as an excuse for being disorganised. We have a house full of Alexas to set reminders on for this reason. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a 45 year old man to think for himself but there has been very little progress on this in the two decades we have been together! Obviously his mother did everything for him. When we moved in together he didn’t know how to use a washing machine: she used to come and pick up his laundry from his flat on a Friday and deliver it back again on Sunday

So the questions are (a) AIBU and should just learn to live with it?

Or (b) am I not BU, but in which case, how do I ‘fix’ this?

He needs to develop how to write his own lists iyswim.

I've never had this with DH, he really is quite domesticated!

However, I do get where you are coming from on the evening meal front. DH has a habit of asking me at breakfast time what we are having for dinner. AAAGHH. It is so annoying. He justifies it by saying we need to get something out of the freezer or he'll pick something up when he goes for a walk etc but I still find it annoying - why do I have to decide so early in the day. And why me. It isn't every day , usually at weekends.

I’ve been thinking and realised that probably three quarters of our couple-y friends are like this too. Male partners do zero thinking and if I ask one of the men if they’d like to make plans to meet up then the response is genuinely always “ask the boss, she does all the planning.”

The difference between my relationship and all of theirs is that our male friends are all the highest earners while their female partners work part time, low paid jobs that they can fit around the children.

I suspect my DH looks at our friends and thinks it’s normal for the wives to be ‘in charge’. At work he has two female colleagues who are ‘work wives’ (I fucking HATE that phrase, but I’m using it in a very real sense here). One is his boss who is paid to manage him, the other is another TA whose husband is very similar to DH but who works long hours so she is very used to managing the household. I suspect that her work and home life are identical.

DH is excellent at his job I would add, but I suspect he has to be reminded to do the bureaucratic shitwork by the women in his work life too (although I could be being grossly unfair).

Oh god I remember this from when I was married. ExH took zero initiative and needed constant reminders to do anything, which still rarely happened. He took no initiative with our son who was a toddler at the time.

I now live with an actual grown up partner. I work from home during the day, and manage school runs for my son (now 5). I do all the cooking, and keep the place generally tidy throughout the day (do washing up from breakfast, lunch, endless cups of tea) before DP gets home. I then cook dinner and DP will straight away do the dishes once we finish. I stay on top of the laundry which I put on first thing, then hang up on my lunch break whilst the kettle boils.

DP does a weekly "deep clean" of his own accord, I mamahe general cleanliness during the week.

The only thing that isn't quite equal is the amount of time I spend on food shopping and cooking doesn't offset the time to do the dishes, but we offset that inequality elsewhere in that this is his home with a tiny mortgage, so he pays all the household outgoings whilst I pay for food and take on the load of cooking it. Works for us both as he would live off of takeaways or sandwiches otherwise.

It sounds like your DH is lazily coasting through life and being carried by the women around him.

Goodbar it’s a fair point although he does work hard, but not on thinking. He’ll cheerfully do stuff, but has to be reminded/ asked/ told. My issue is that I shouldn’t have to manage someone who is an adult in all other areas of his life. One of his colleagues gets paid to do just that, the other…well… it’s up to her if it bothers her.

Felulageller

This rang so true with me. I left my husband over 5 years ago - I've got my own tidy house and pay my bills and any mental load is just mine own after years of doing and thinking about everything. The years of thinking about what to cook every night - the whole Christmas load - all the housework. If I ever asked him to do anything, he would ask for a list (even the most basic stuff in front of him) If he washed up, he wouldn't wipe down the worktops etc as I 'hadn't asked him to'. All that shit for 30 odd years!! It is the boiled frog scenario. Anyway, he now lives on his own - the toilets are filthy - there is stuff in the back of the fridge from when I was there - he forages for food - bananas cherry tomatoes or occasionally a ready meal. He does his own washing after years of being unable to use the machine, but its all lumped in together and starting to look like the same colour ... He has a good job with a team that rely on him and manages to organise his drinking nights with his mates, but he is like a teenager. It's so hard to understand but I no longer have to - thank God.

All that wasted life of DM's cleaning for him when he clearly would choose to live in filth!

She obviously wasn’t cleaning for him if he chooses to live in filth. She was cleaning for herself, just like she does now. This is where differing standards kick in - I’m sure most houseproud women would think my house was a tip, if they wanted it to meet their standards they’d have to give me a list. My mental load extends no further than clean kitchen, bathrooms and beds, I genuinely don’t give a shit about anything else.

@Comedycook

Loads of men just don't care. If their wives stopped doing shit, they wouldn't necessarily start doing it all. For example, I do all the cooking. If I don't cook,dh eats beige freezer food. If I stopped cooking permanently, he'd eat beige freezer food till the end of time!

This is the thing I think, we care but they don't but are we like because of upbringing, innate brain wiring, society expectations? I don't know.

I'm still with DH 25 years on not a ltb situation here either.

Some things he has helped me realise was some socialization to old-fashioned etiquette rules, that isn't really necessary it's just what my dm taught me as "right". Other things I have compromised on or do myself to my standard like cleaning and washing. Ironing he now sends out to someone as only his and dc school shirts need ironing for example.

Cooking I've learnt to accept he feeds the kids different food to what I would but it won't harm them they prefer it and probably have fonder memories of dads dinners rather than mums

Your coupley friends are your friends then.

Some men care.
I have know three very tidy houseproud men.
The problem arises when you have a (man often but nor always.) who has come from a well run and / or maintained home so has expectations set. But somehow never learned how it all happened.
A complete slob in all areas is far easier to spot.

My sample size isn't huge by the way, they are all close to me😂.

I have one of these, am resigned that it wont change much whilst we have young children . Its tedious. Its also concerning that my boy children, no matter what chores i set for them will default to what they observe and the pattern will repeat

Isn’t it called “learned incompetence”?
So very glad I don’t have a man child asking me if the dishwasher needs unloading etc - I wouldn’t ever be able to have sex with him again. Complete turnoff.

I hate this "you just need to lower your standards" shit.

I don't live in a show home (far from - we're very slobby by my mother's standards!) and I don't insist on gourmet meals, but there are certain non-negotiables in my view. DC needs to be offered a balanced diet with at least 5 fruit/veggies a day and good quality protein sources (not always fish fingers or chicken nuggets though those are fine a couple of times a week). Beds changed at least fortnightly, ideally weekly. Hoovering at a minimum a couple of times a week. Rubbish taken out promptly and not left to overflow onto the floor. DC dressed in clean clothes and DC nursery bag packed properly with a clean water bottle. Toys packed away every night or at least pushed to the side of the room so we're not tripping over them. Kitchen surfaces wiped daily, kitchen floor kept clean. Bathrooms cleaned at least once a week and any wee/poo accidents cleaned up immediately.

It's fine for adults to choose to live in squalor by themselves (we did to some degree pre-DC as we weren't that bothered). But when kids come along, both partners need to do their bit to maintain a reasonably hygienic and organised home environmental for them. And I'm not talking colour-coded wardrobes or perfectly curated toy shelves. It's not acceptable for one parent to opt out of helping maintain a suitable home and healthy diet for their DC because they have 'lower standards'.

For me it's more the feeling of being treated like a telephone exchange. e.g. DD is texting on the family WhatsApp with a problem. DH says 'well if it were me I'd do this' but says it to me like I would reply on his behalf. I told him that she is his daughter to and he can communicate directly with her FFS

e.g.2 Me, DH and DS are standing in the kitchen when DH asks who wants a cuppa. Me and DS both reply yes please. As usual, DH doesn't actually tune in properly for the answer then asks me again if I want a cuppa and (and this bit almost sent me into orbit with incredulousness - if that's a word), stared straight at me whilst DS was standing next to him and asked if 'he wanted a cup too'. Honestly it makes me spit flames. I have no answers OP only sympathy x

I completely empathize. I have the same issue. My DH is a highly successful, competent professional who runs a million dollar business. Yet can't think ahead 12 hours when it comes to anything house related.

I have decided that I am going to let him "fail" even at the big stuff.

Case in point - yesterday we were supposed to complete on the purchase of a lake cabin. (For context, we've moved twice since April and all the kids have moved school districts. I have done EVERYTHING to make that happen; he literally did not take a single day off to facilitate any of the moves.). When we discussed buying it, I told him the only thing I was willing to do was show up to closing and sign the papers. Nothing else.

Long story short, he shows up having not properly read the agent/mortgage guy emails and has not brought a cashiers check as instructed. We cannot complete the purchase. Our bank is closed today and tomorrow for Christmas so we can do nothing until Monday. Sellers are NOT happy.

He asked me what "we" should do and "why didn't I tell him he needed a check" Needless to say, "we" are doing nothing and if we lose out on the cabin, so be it.

Goldbar what you’ve said about life pre-kids rings true here too. A PP said that one just shouldn’t marry people who aren’t responsible for their own shit but that was fine when we were both lazy, irresponsible twenty-somethings. It’s galling that I grew up and he didn’t grow up as much.

Having said that, he slept in til 11.30 this morning (not an issue, it’s the holidays and I was pootling around feeding the kids, posting on here and doing laundry) and I told him I was done for the day as a result of his epic lie in. He’s currently on his third outing to Tesco as he forgot to get what we need the first two times He’s made a decision about dinner too after I told him I have no idea about what we’ve got (I do) and what we need (I do). Baby steps.

Bluechinavase I’m so sorry. Your post made me proper chuckle, totally in sympathy but, yeah…wtaf?!

episcomama oh Lord that’s infuriating! We recently moved house and I did all of it. I knew I’d have to as DH’s dyslexia would have meant he’d have got in a complete fluster with it. It would’ve been really awful for everyone involved.

Holidays on the other hand… Every year I say I’m not booking, planning and taking responsibility for the family holiday and every year I cave because otherwise we’d lose out. But the world won’t end if we don’t go on holiday will it? And it’s not anywhere nearly as complicated as buying a house and no one else is depending on us getting it right.

Therefore my early resolution is that 2022 will be the year when I don’t book the holiday. If he fucks it up then it’ll be a learning experience for him and he’ll do it better next year.

For info: we don’t go on big complicated holidays so it’s not like I’d be unfairly setting him up to fail. All he’d need to do is find a decent campsite in the UK.

I feel you. Mine isn’t too bad but I get the
-Where’s my
-Where shall I put
-Should I do x or y
-Question for you
-Confirming everything 100 times so you want X are you sure are you sure

I point blank refuse to answer stupid Qs and basically I do the bare minimum
I refuse to deal with presents or cards for his family
I cook what I want and if he wants it I’ll make double if he doesn’t not my problem

You know he won’t change-it’s very well proven by now, so what replies are you hoping for?

How do you explain to your kid/s that women aren’t for serving men, whilst giving them such a terrible example, every day?

Sounds like a shit way to choose to live.

What I don’t know is how the hell men don’t know things. Like it didn’t occur to DH that DC would require a stocking. It’s not like I went to a special school of Xmas instructions. They just opt out of thinking. The fairies will do it.

Of course they know, crap ones just don’t care, and they know whichever mug they picked to impregnate will do all the work for them, teaching their kids to follow the same pathetic path in life, and repeat.

I was married to a similar dh, however after 30 years of being worn down day in day at it came to a point when I didn’t want my dd to think this was what a relationship should look like.
Despite his “good “ qualities I made the decision that as he couldn’t/ wouldn’t change I left after 30 years together. Turns out to be the best decision I have ever made for myself and my dc. My dc are growing up to understand that they cannot change other people no matter how much effort you put in and they absolutely know their worth in a relationship.

What does he actually add to your life? You say you would be worse off practically but how, when he's so useless in that way? And emotionally? What emotional support does he provide?

Is he intellectually capable of what you want him to do? If he isn't, then he can't change and you need to accept him or leave.

If he is capable, either he needs to change or you accept that he doesn't what to change.

You can't change him, only accept (or not) his choices and capabilities.