There are no such things as Empaths

[Seafog]

Ffs.
Empathy ....some of us have more empathy than others, but it doesn't make you a fucking empath!
If you have sympathy for people, would you go around saying you are a sympath?

Just say , "I have so much empathy" or "I am really sensitive to people's emotional state."

Making up a word to try and make yourself sound more special makes me think you're attention seeking twat.

AIBU?

@RobertSmithsLipstick

Thank you. I do appreciate it. It's a difficult time of year.

Genuine mistake there, I am very sorry. I am quite new to engaging on mumsnet and it can get a bit confusing getting used to how things appear. You aren't the one that should have been directed at. Genuinely sorry.

Honestly, it's fine.
Don't start getting all empathic about it.
(Joke!)

[quote ldontWanna]**@Apiddleawiddle* I called it an unhealthy coping mechanism not Lipstick*. And I stand by it.[/quote]
Then you better get onto mental health teams and tell them to stop their group sessions as they encourage what you see as an unhealthy coping mechanism.

@Apiddleawiddle

The fact your kneejerk reaction to @RobertSmithsLipstick was a lengthy message entirely in defence of yourself, followed by a secondary post of condolence rather undermines your claim to be well attuned to the experiences, feelings and pain of others in my opinion.

@RobertSmithsLipstick I'm so sorry, Christmas is bloody hard going after loss isn't it? I'm always a bit relieved when it's over.

It is.
I always think "this year will be a bit easier".
It never is though.
My daughter loved Christmas.

@RobertSmithsLipstick

Honestly, it's fine. Don't start getting all empathic about it. (Joke!)

Lol, no no, I see the error of my way there and own up to it. Thanks to others for pointing it out. That was totally shit of me and not excusing it, just letting you know how it came about. A lesson in maneuvering mumsnet learned now.

@Apiddleawiddle

Mental health teams do not encourage group therapy in which members diagnose others/trauma dump on one another/where participants are expected to provide the therapy.

The group therapy would be guided by a professional and usually geared to a specific learning point, not just somebody pouring out their life story and someone else saying ‘I feel just the same I feel you’re feeling xyz and you’re bipolar.’

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@Apiddleawiddle

The fact your kneejerk reaction to @RobertSmithsLipstick was a lengthy message entirely in defence of yourself, followed by a secondary post of condolence rather undermines your claim to be well attuned to the experiences, feelings and pain of others in my opinion.

@RobertSmithsLipstick I'm so sorry, Christmas is bloody hard going after loss isn't it? I'm always a bit relieved when it's over. [/quote]
Honestly it so proves the point. Self proclaimed empaths are always the most self absorbed people.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@Apiddleawiddle

The fact your kneejerk reaction to @RobertSmithsLipstick was a lengthy message entirely in defence of yourself, followed by a secondary post of condolence rather undermines your claim to be well attuned to the experiences, feelings and pain of others in my opinion.

@RobertSmithsLipstick I'm so sorry, Christmas is bloody hard going after loss isn't it? I'm always a bit relieved when it's over. [/quote]
That's because that reply shouldn't have been for lipstick and I apologised for it and hope it will be genuinely received. I have misread how the replies have went.

Then you better get onto mental health teams and tell them to stop their group sessions as they encourage what you see as an unhealthy coping mechanism.

The fact that you can't see the difference is exactly why I stand by it. The need to self validate doesn't help either.

As an aside what does your therapist think of your extracurriculars and the fact that you use what you've learned/heard in the sessions with her/him?

@RobertSmithsLipstick I’m so sorry, it must be hard enough at any time of year never mind now.

I think the trouble is that the term “empath” is grabbed and misused and used to relieve money from people. There are a lot of things in this world that we don’t understand (I have experienced some, had my arse kicked here for them, now keep quiet). What I will say is, “if” someone is an empath, they will not advertise the fact, charge money for it and will probably go to great lengths to hide it as this thread proves, most people prefer, understandably, scientific facts.

@RobertSmithsLipstick

@Apiddleawiddle Please be careful. It isn't normal to have so many people unloading trauma to you in this way and while it might help you, and you may even help some of them, it could be very harmful. Counsellors and psychiatrists work with very carefully defined boundaries (you know that) which protect them and others.

[quote Kanaloa]@Apiddleawiddle

Mental health teams do not encourage group therapy in which members diagnose others/trauma dump on one another/where participants are expected to provide the therapy.

The group therapy would be guided by a professional and usually geared to a specific learning point, not just somebody pouring out their life story and someone else saying ‘I feel just the same I feel you’re feeling xyz and you’re bipolar.’[/quote]
Just aswell I don't diagnose then isn't it 😉 I know firsthand how the professionals are wrong a lot too considering my cptsd, autism and adhd went misdiagnosed for 20 years.
Part of the therapy is to help you relate to others which is exactly what I do with people.
All I said was I can spot mental health issues in people that others can't (and without diagnosing turn out to be right through the admission of the other person of their own accord), how does that mean diagnosing. Baffling.

[quote CPL593H]@RobertSmithsLipstick

@Apiddleawiddle Please be careful. It isn't normal to have so many people unloading trauma to you in this way and while it might help you, and you may even help some of them, it could be very harmful. Counsellors and psychiatrists work with very carefully defined boundaries (you know that) which protect them and others.[/quote]
No I know it isn't, thats why I have become more introverted in older life. I limit those I reach out to and others wish them well with some pointers of where to go to start their own journey of discovery and diagnosis whilst letting them know they aren't alone. I encourage people to reach out to mental health services and in crisis to phone the crisis teams or if unavailable and it is life threatening to call 999. I do seem to attract people so maybe I give off a certain vibe that makes me someone to open up to for people. I am very careful in how I talk to people about their issues. I let them do most of the talking and I mostly relate like a friend would when letting it out to each other and without judgement. It is a lot to carry sometimes and so far glad to say have only ever helped people by just being there to let them know they aren't alone.

I've no idea if 'empaths' exist, however I have asd and a major pointer was the way I can pick up how someone is feeling and the rooms atmosphere. What I pick up most often dictates how I end up feeling. It's overwhelming and embarrassing!

@ldontWanna

Then you better get onto mental health teams and tell them to stop their group sessions as they encourage what you see as an unhealthy coping mechanism.

The fact that you can't see the difference is exactly why I stand by it. The need to self validate doesn't help either.

As an aside what does your therapist think of your extracurriculars and the fact that you use what you've learned/heard in the sessions with her/him?

She's delighted that I am willing to help others, share experiences but obviously warns me about overburdening myself. Why would she care about me sharing what I learn in therapy? If she was a private therapist I could understand a potential loss of earnings from someone else, if it's helping them but she's not private, and she doesn't tell me anything that isn't freely available on the Internet. She doesn't tell me anything that only a therapist knows. I don't go out diagnosing people. People come to me, I relate to them with my own experiences, explain how I used to see things, how I now see things, explain how I have been told that trauma changes how the brain works, ask them how things make them feel, encourage to reach out to mental health teams and if anything severe then crisis teams or 999. What kind of things do you think I'm doing with people 😄 sharing trauma among sufferers is encouraged. With mental health services with NHS being pushed so far it's a good thing that those in stronger positions do little things for others to help them, like just acting like a good understanding friend would, help people not feel alone. I'm genuinely interested to know what you think I'm doing that makes you so suspicious.

@Apiddleawiddle, I'm glad you are saying you are careful in how you relate to people discussing possible mental health difficulties and encourage them to use the services avaiable. I was worried that you were coming over as quite naive in how you are applying what you have learned. You must be aware that there are many people (some who are genuinely traumatised themselves) who will latch on to an apparent connection with others and exploit it in some way. So it's good you are building up defenses as you express it 'becoming an introvert'. Suffering does not necessarily make people 'nice'. In my opnion empathy needs to be controlled as any passing emotion does.

Empath or hyper vigilant due to previous trauma?

So then what point were you trying to make about group therapy? At no point in group therapy is anyone encouraged to say they know how others are feeling. At no point are they encouraged to say they can ‘sense’ things from others.

So the fact that some people do group therapy is totally irrelevant to how you think you know about other people’s feelings.

I'm genuinely interested to know what you think I'm doing that makes you so suspicious

I mean it’s hard to tell from your posts exactly what you’re doing because you’re being weirdly vague.

It sounds like you’re seeking out people with serious trauma then attempting to pass on information you’ve gotten from a therapist, somehow aided by your status as an ‘empath’ which assists you in knowing how others feel. If so then that’s not really appropriate or helpful because you’re not trained. Even though you’re passing it on from a therapist that advice will be tailored to your situation and won’t fit everyone.

[quote tomorrowalready]@Apiddleawiddle, I'm glad you are saying you are careful in how you relate to people discussing possible mental health difficulties and encourage them to use the services avaiable. I was worried that you were coming over as quite naive in how you are applying what you have learned. You must be aware that there are many people (some who are genuinely traumatised themselves) who will latch on to an apparent connection with others and exploit it in some way. So it's good you are building up defenses as you express it 'becoming an introvert'. Suffering does not necessarily make people 'nice'. In my opnion empathy needs to be controlled as any passing emotion does.[/quote]
No no, I'm not a substitute for a therapist. I encourage people to go to qualified professionals when I suspect there is mental health issues at play and that only the professionals can diagnose and offer proper treatment and that there will be things only the professionals can do and know and I will help in what ways I can but there is only so much I can do and offers Many people find it hard to access these services so I use the skills taught to me to help others until they can get on their own journey. The people who take advantage are sadly part of my traumas where past traumas have been used against me in abusive ways so I know all to well that not everyone with trauma is a nice person. Thankfully Mt therapist has helped me become more resilient to these people and am able to protect myself from them even if they do turn out to be people who I have tried to help thinking they were nice. I don't allow the way others treat me define me and infact use it to define them instead.

@Kanaloa

So then what point were you trying to make about group therapy? At no point in group therapy is anyone encouraged to say they know how others are feeling. At no point are they encouraged to say they can ‘sense’ things from others.

So the fact that some people do group therapy is totally irrelevant to how you think you know about other people’s feelings.

The point was raised that relating to others with trauma and helping them through is an unhealthy coping mechanism (not necessarily said by you). This isnt the case and is infact encouraged in some through group therapy where they get you to relate to others, talk to others, engage with other surrounding your experiences with trauma, these group therapy skills can be used when talking to other people about their traumas to help them process, help them feel less alone in how they feel about things, help validate their own emotions regarding their experiences. They are encouraged to empathise with the experiences of others and understand the emotions behind the experiences. Different experiences can have similar emotions. You don't have to have the exact same events of trauma to understand how someone feels. Yes, I can sense mental health in people through subtle things that many cannot. You might not notice the person talking about a bad time they went through and scratching their arm till they draw blood then cover it up, or the restless leg that's going under the table. The biting of the lip, lack of eye contact, certain ways of talking, the over or under expressive body language, the jumping out the skin at a loud noise and the lingering look of fear in the eyes even when the moment has passed. There are many things that those with mental health do that too many people would not notice but some of us get a sense of it. Just because you can't spot it doesn't mean others can't either. If a therapist can spot these things then bet your arse someone with almost 30 years experience can spot them.

You might not notice the person talking about a bad time they went through and scratching their arm till they draw blood then cover it up, or the restless leg that's going under the table. The biting of the lip, lack of eye contact, certain ways of talking, the over or under expressive body language, the jumping out the skin at a loud noise and the lingering look of fear in the eyes even when the moment has passed. There are many things that those with mental health do that too many people would not notice but some of us get a sense of it.

Firstly, everyone has mental health. Secondly, noticing that someone jumps out of their skin/scratches themselves till they bleed while talking to people about their traumatic events doesn’t make you an empath or clairsentient or any of the rest. It just means you’re not blind. Most people would notice these things. And of course if you continually embroil yourself with those who are struggling you’ll notice them even more.

And group therapy skills can not be used independently by someone to ‘guide others through their feelings.’ That’s not how it works. They are to be used in a group setting with the support of professionals.

I would think it’s unhealthy to be so focused on ‘helping’ others. It’s hard enough for professionals to help when it comes to poor mental health, never mind someone who thinks they can ‘sense’ other people’s mental illness.

So yes, I’d notice any of those things. Most people would.

I suppose where we differ is that I would not consider trying to help ‘guide’ that person through their trauma in any way. Being in therapy doesn’t qualify me to give therapy anymore than eating at a restaurant makes me a chef.

@Kanaloa

I'm genuinely interested to know what you think I'm doing that makes you so suspicious

I mean it’s hard to tell from your posts exactly what you’re doing because you’re being weirdly vague.

It sounds like you’re seeking out people with serious trauma then attempting to pass on information you’ve gotten from a therapist, somehow aided by your status as an ‘empath’ which assists you in knowing how others feel. If so then that’s not really appropriate or helpful because you’re not trained. Even though you’re passing it on from a therapist that advice will be tailored to your situation and won’t fit everyone.

I don't tell people I'm an empath. I don't seek people out either, they come to me because I am open. I pass on skills I have learned in therapy to help others cope whilst encouraging them to seek out a professional to help them process their mental health issues and explain there is only so much I can do. These skills are not particularly tailored to me either and are taught in the likes of group therapies generically like breathing techniques, grounding techniques, change of perspective on things, take up a hobby to help fill time so less time to wallow, talk openly and don't fear judgement, validate your emotions. Whilst yes some things my therapist tells me will be tailored to me specifically, I don't go around telling people they need to try it. Those I talk to regarding trauma are either friends or family who will ask me about my therapy and I will tell them what's been going on. They will ask about specific things, why, how etc and then may choose to do something with it themselves. When strangers open up, I encourage them to seek help and let them know they aren't alone and offer relatable experiences based on theirs as sadly I have a wide range of traumas. I don't go offering treatment or tailored advice. I offer a friendly ear and a friendly chat