The big anti-Covid pass protest tomorrow in London

[User135644]

AIBU or is this really not helpful to have them all gathering in the middle of London? It's the new epicentre of Covid while the virus peaks to previously unseen levels case wise. They're protesting against any new restrictions yet their actions tomorrow will make restrictions more likely.

I accept their right to protest but think it's unhelpful at this juncture, especially a week before Christmas. No doubt people bused in from around the country who'll then spread it back to their own home town.

Not to mention a lot of these people will be unvaccinated which puts the hospitals under more strain if it turns into a superspreader event. These Saturday protest jollies in London are always filled with anti-vax speakers, posters and paraphernalia.

@XenoBitch

If it was a protest about something else... say maybe a protest about social care failing in detecting the little Arthur case.... would you be posting about it?

Yes, I would have a REAL problem with a protest demonising social workers. Much more so than a super spreader anti vaccine etc protest

@iheartredsquirrels

Protesting in the given climate? what a bunch of morons, who with any brain cell to ever thing this is a good idea ?

Ah - but it’s the great plandemic, ‘just a cold’, a 5G side effect, a big pharma Co-ordination to sell dodgy vaccines - doncha know?

@ilovesooty

I don't have a problem with covid passes as long as those who cannot be vaccinated are able to show other evidence such as a negative test.

I don't care if the wilfully unvaccinated have their lives restricted.

In any case, since covid pass requirements aren't even widespread in England at this point I don't see why they're protesting.

And if Piers Corbyn is there I hope he's arrested (again) PDQ.

So would you say the same about those who wilfully refuse for their children to get vaccinated against the much more transmissible measles?

[quote Dottybackorcid]@LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus I suppose you will say the same as owning a passport? driving licence? or a gun licence? after these must also be coercion masquerading as freedom. [/quote]
I remember when the imposition of wearing seatbelts was regarded as an egregious assault on civil liberties!

I'm in Wales and we have vaccine passports yet they've still closed nightclubs down from December 27th (apparently covid is letting everyone have one last blowout) so I think it's safe to say that vaccine or not they've recognised it's spreading.

having to Test negative is like the passport scheme in terms of intrusion on liberties -- It's still a medical procedure.

Is it really an intrusion of liberties. Do you really think the government want to have to enforce this because they are a new world order. The way I see it, its a social responsibility and if you genuinely believe you are being injected with 5g or whatever, you should have your access to other humans restricted because you are dangerous and unwell.

So would you say the same about those who wilfully refuse for their children to get vaccinated against the much more transmissible measles?

There was a real movement amongst local schoolchildren to introduce measles vaccine passports for school when there were 300 cases of measles locally. Some of those cases were hospitalised and signs went up in the local hospital saying that anyone with symptoms should not present in A&E because some people had bought their children in and there was concern it would spread into the local community, especially those who grew up in the 60s and 70s who had not had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

I also understand some of those teenage unvaccinated children were angry with their parents and took advantage of vaccination being offered in schools in defiance of them.

Seeing those signs provoked a visceral sadness in me because both my brother and I were hospitalised with measles and I knew children in the community I grew up in who had lifelong complications and even died.

It defies belief that you would bring those consequences on your children when there is a safe way to prevent it.

Its either lockdown for everybody or lockdown for vaccine refusers.

Nah good for them. This government is a bloody joke. Sick of them piling on blame to the unvaccinated when even the triple vaccinated can carry and spread it in the same way. Vaccine passports are useless and it just feels like paperwork that shifts blame to the unvaccinated.
Proper testing, masks and hygiene are the only preventative measures and even then we will never win.
It’s time to just get on with our lives.
Fed up of this total bullshit.

And…everyone likes to think the unvaccinated are just hippy, conspiracy theorists when 9/10 they are just normal people who value themselves enough to make a judgement and choice on what is best for them and their own bodies.
Pregnant woman for example are cautious because the government weren’t sure to start with if it was safe for pregnant women, the advice changed weeks later. The vaccine is still under trial and maybe they want to rely on their immune system seeing as the vaccine doesn’t actually stop the virus.
People have their own personal reasons - not because they think it’s 5G or what ever else.
Most of these people have their vaccines against other diseases that were properly trialed.

Sick of them piling on blame to the unvaccinated when even the triple vaccinated can carry and spread it in the same way.

Studies have shown that vaccines reduce the risk of transmission. Vaccinated can still spread it - but they are less likely to.

And as Sajid Javid says, the unvaccinated are taking up hospital beds that are needed for heart patients, cancer patients, and all other non Covid care.

news.sky.com/video/covid-19-unvaccinated-must-really-think-about-the-damage-they-are-doing-javid-12499695

Health Secretary Sajid Javid says nine out of 10 of the most sick people in hospitals are unvaccinated

We should have followed the lead of many other countries in bringing in vaccine passes.

Pregnant woman for example are cautious because the government weren’t sure to start with if it was safe for pregnant women, the advice changed weeks later.

Yes. Like you say, as the experts learned more about it, the advice changed. Because they now know that pregnant women are at increased risk.

I find Javid’s statement frustrating

Acknowledge the problem but what’s the solution

How does it help to just point it out

Well Piers Corbyn might finally get the help he so obviously needs. I mean it. He's clearly unwell. He's been arrested for encouraging people to burn down MP's offices. I hope instead of prison, he gets psychiatric care. He's genuinely ill. He is a lesson in what happens if you let conspiracy theories eat you up.

You're right Marsha

We need to deal with the problem. Vaccine passess, for a start. Unfortunately it's hardly going to encourage refuseniks when so many Tory MPs had a tantrum about a public health measure that's successfully been in place in many countries around the world for months. What an embarrassment. The German newspaper had it right, when they wrote this week of their bafflement over our lack of mitigations.

We've gone about it all wrong. Wishy washy pretty please please please approach doesn't work. People respect far more the "It's a requirement, no argument" attitude.

Of course better local outreach work with communities - dispelling fears fueled by misinformation - would also help, but tbf efforts are going on with that, and I think some good progress has been made.

But eventually it might be necessary to look at what some other countries have done. Lockdown for the unvaccinated. Freedom goes both ways. When one person's freedom poses a serious threat to the rest of society, we need to look at priorities. In a society, rights come with responsibilities. Those who wish to opt out of those rights and responsibilities are free to live off-grid and create their own societies.

Most of these people have their vaccines against other diseases that were properly trialed These vaccines went through all the same trials that other vaccines do. I spoke to a researcher in May 2020 and the research was already in progress, it was just that with Covid they had the funding to progress to the necessary trials whereas before it was much harder to get, the funding was accelerated not the research and trials. These vaccines are safe, Covid is not

Just the same as all the other protests that have happened since they declared it a pandemic.
It has to happen in London because that is where all the twats making the decisions are gathered.

tealights This is one of the areas where the failure to keep the Covid strategy in the public sector really hobbled it. Where I come from considerable anti vax misinformation has taken hold in certain if it’s diverse communities. The public health people know those communities and how best to counter that misinformation with feet on the ground but lack of funding and data (from the disastrous test track and trace ) really impeded their ability to do so.

@Emilyontmoor

tealights This is one of the areas where the failure to keep the Covid strategy in the public sector really hobbled it. Where I come from considerable anti vax misinformation has taken hold in certain if it’s diverse communities. The public health people know those communities and how best to counter that misinformation with feet on the ground but lack of funding and data (from the disastrous test track and trace ) really impeded their ability to do so.

Yes agree. Local authorities have been saying they need to manage the rollout, because they can use their local knowledge and work with local communities. Those spreading misinformation have unfortunately targeted some of the most vulnerable groups. Pretty disgusting behaviour.

You know, I think it's probably ultimately a great idea for them to do this.

They'll be disproportionally the unvaccinated. Good chance that a good number have Covid. If they spread it liberally among the group then that'll give them some immunity for the time being. Not as good as being vaccinated, but a good start.

Well, it would be a good ideas if we could make sure everyone else stays away from them, anyway.