12 year keeps getting in trouble at school and home - am I being too HARSH or not HARSH enough?

[MNF2021]

My daughter is 12 and is constantly getting in trouble at school. It’s so stressful as nearly every few days within a week I am getting called from the school about her behaviour towards teachers, other students and nothing seems to deter her.
She has been placed on a report at school were she has to get it signed after every lesson about her behaviour and tends to end up in isolation (time away from the class for the whole day on a day to day basis). When asked why she thinks it’s acceptable to do these things, she simply responds with “that’s just the way I am or people are so annoying”
So your probably thinking, what have I done at home?
She is an only child and I have tried speaking and reasoning with her to be greeted with nothing but teen backchat and attitude. Her gadgets have been confiscated until Christmas Day, no friends over, no Christmas disco etc - all been taken away and her response is she doesn’t care!
Does anyone have any parenting advise/tips on consequences and how to make her realise that her actions will eventually get her into big trouble!! Help!
I realise I may have over indulged her being my only child and I think I am now paying the price!

ADHD? Mine is similar and we’re going for a diagnosis

I would look for the cause of her behaviour rather than thinking of it in terms of punishments.

Also, what she is actually doing? Is it disorganisation? Or bullying? Or disruptive?

You need to look at what she's doing and why.

I would also be looking for root cause

You haven't said what she's actually doing so impossible to comment.

Why are you punishing her when she's already being punished at school?

Your role needs to be getting to the bottom of what's going on that's causing her to behave like this. That might mean seeking professional help if you can't work it out together.

I have one with ADHD and this is ringing a bell with me.

Apart from that, if we think of behaviour as communication- what is she trying to tell you? Is she struggling in class so switches off and misbehaves instead? Or is the work too easy and she is bored? Is she being influenced by a friend? Is she lonely and trying to make herself the class clown to get attention?

She doesn't care because she can't win.
She messes up all the time and gets told off all the time.
She's been punished and punished more.
None of it works because it all just makes her feel crap about herself.

What's going on for her?
Not, why is she behaving like that, but what is happening in her life that she is having so much difficulty coping with that spills over into her behaviour.

If she doesn't feel listened to or understood, she won't open up and talk.

I recommend reading Dr Ross Greene, The Explosive Child.
It's going to take a bit of time to build some trust and work together to make things better.

Being disruptive, Hitting and Lashing out at others when there is no cause for it. Answering back for everything and not participating in learning.

Behaviour is a form of communication.

What is she trying to communicate.

Most children are not BAD, there is something going on.

As others have said don't double punish and try to work out what is causing her to act up and fix that.

Good luck.

Has she always been like that

Could have written the post except this was mine in September and she's now have 4 periods of fixed term exclusion and things are spiralling.

As others have said worth questioning if something like ADHD/ASD might be causing school to be a struggle - this age group had no proper transition from primary and have really struggled.

You can meet with the school and ask what support they are giving her as she's clearly struggling and the sanctions aren't working.

Maybe she could get a time out pass that she could use before she gets into trouble, a safe place in the school to go before she gets overwhelmed ...

Does she prefer time in isolation? Quiet, no distractions or people around etc?

Is she neurotypical?

Is there a pattern to her behaviour, like specific lessons/classmates/teachers?

Former secondary teacher here. My children are much younger, but I’ve taught a lot of children with behaviour like you describe. I think they can get caught in a cycle of poor behaviour: teachers expect it of them, so there’s a bit of a negative atmosphere already, and then she gives them what she thinks they’re expecting.

It’s probably a bit late to do it this side of Christmas, but I would try to arrange a meeting with you, your DD, her head of year, maybe her tutor and any pastoral person who has been involved. Encourage her to be really honest and open about her feelings and what she needs. The tone needs to be supportive. Then, an email should be sent out to all her teachers asking them to start fresh with her. Give her a clean slate and look for lots of reasons to praise her. It won’t be a total fix, but it may start to turn things around to be more positive generally.

And if it doesn’t work, I’ve taught a lot of children who were really miserable when they were 12, and really great by the time they were 15. Puberty is rough, but it doesn’t mean that this is who your daughter will always be. Hang in there.

I have always said this about her that education isn’t for her. She has no interest in and makes no effort at all. She does struggle and I have got her extra tuition in those subjects but there is still a lack of attention. Her knees are constantly twitching whilst learning, she’s doodling, breaking pens when she is meant to be focusing.

How is her behaviour at home?

Through childhood, has she had firm boundaries and consequences at home for bad behaviour? If not.... home is where the problems start and home is where you need to fix them.

Yes even when she was young. She would constantly get in trouble at childminders and after school clubs for being mean to children (especially ones that were younger than her)

What did you do about that then, with the childminder?

Sounds like potential ADHD. Getting a diagnosis or test at the mo is a bit of a fucker but worth it.

Mine was the same that age. Took 4 years, 3 referrals but had a shock ADHD diagnosis. With meds is now model student.

Ask to speak with the sendco urgently (probably after Christmas now) and arrange for support ot be put in place for her at the school.

Read
‘The book you wish your parents had read and your children will be glad that you did’

I would definitely look at ADHD or ASD, it does sound like she could be bottling up her feelings until they burst out, like a bottle of fizzy pop being shaken & shaken & exploding when the top came off.

What help have you already sought for her? This has clearly been a concern for many years so I'm guessing you've had some professional involvement. What's been tried already? Does she have an EHCP (or equivalent)? What support have school provided?

Could be adhd
Some of the hyperactive symptoms outwardly diminish but are still prevalent in mental hyperactive behaviour.
Quick to react to emotions, anger, frustrated.

Dr Barkley on YouTube does some amazing adhd seminar called 30 things you should know.
Eye opening

Oh and it's long term. Chronic and needs medication (in almost all cases).
Children have a 30% executive functioning deficit so if she's got adhd, she's not age 12. More like 8
What would you expect an 8 year old to do chores/attention/maturity wise?

Agree with everyone else. Stop punishing her and get her help. She's not coping. There is something behind all this. If you don't she'll end up with no qualifications at 16 if not excluded first