How do people keep voting in the tories?

[chaosmaker]

I'd love it if tory voters could say why they vote the way they do given that there's ample evidence for how utterly incompetent they are (11 years). Especially in the last election. With that not-fit-for-purpose idiot in charge - edited by MNHQ
I also keep writing to my MP saying that if they are going to pretend we have democracy then they need to scrap FPTP.

AIBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or
AINBU am I right in that people should have to factor history and rare sense into their decision making?

@elodie77

Beckert you sound like a Daily Mail column - bot.

I won't say what you sound like. No point in sinking to your level. It's not complimentary though. Sad that people like you have ruined labour though and what it once stood for.

@elodie77

You all keep saying Corbyn. But what exactly is it about him that 'made' you vote conservatives?

Right wing scare mongering.

Left wing fanaticism

Left wing fanaticism

Exactly this.

Sad that people like you have ruined labour though and what it once stood for.

I think that accusation could be much more accurately levelled at your Prime Minister.

@mellongoose
If you're using the 'relative poverty' figure, please don't. By definition you will always have a large percentage relatively poor compared to the average

why not? why should we accept a large number of people so much worse of than the better off?

Absolutely poverty has gone down in recent years, although one child living in absolutely poverty is one too many. That is why there is a safety net of a welfare state

No it hasn't, 14% of the UK pop. live on below the amount the govt says they need & tell that to the parent trying to do the right thing but getting a benefits sanction, ending up on a credit agency, then stuck in a cycle of never ending debt.

Even then....parents are still responsible for ensuring their children are fed, clothed, sheltered, sent to school and taught right from wrong

What do you do when parents don't do this? do you realise that some people do not have the money to do this.

Some of the most deprived children I know grew to well rounded adults and ended up in fulfilling careers. Why? Because their parents, even though they had nothing, put their children's needs first and gave them confidence and ambition

..and plenty more don't regardless of their parents efforts, why is it Rashford had to make the Govt pay out for free school meals during hols time? do poor families get free food from Asda in the summer term?

I don't think you have any idea of some peoples struggles.

And the problem with New Labour is that it stood and stands for nothing but Old Corruption: selling public goods off and giving public money away to the most vocal and powerful faster than the Tories ever did.

think that accusation could be much more accurately levelled at your Prime Minister.

Your prime minister too.

Labour helped create this.

Enjoy.

Your prime minister too.

Nah, not from here. We have a good Prime Minister I'm very proud of and can trust.

[quote Octavia174]@mellongoose
If you're using the 'relative poverty' figure, please don't. By definition you will always have a large percentage relatively poor compared to the average

why not? why should we accept a large number of people so much worse of than the better off?

Absolutely poverty has gone down in recent years, although one child living in absolutely poverty is one too many. That is why there is a safety net of a welfare state

No it hasn't, 14% of the UK pop. live on below the amount the govt says they need & tell that to the parent trying to do the right thing but getting a benefits sanction, ending up on a credit agency, then stuck in a cycle of never ending debt.

Even then....parents are still responsible for ensuring their children are fed, clothed, sheltered, sent to school and taught right from wrong

What do you do when parents don't do this? do you realise that some people do not have the money to do this.

Some of the most deprived children I know grew to well rounded adults and ended up in fulfilling careers. Why? Because their parents, even though they had nothing, put their children's needs first and gave them confidence and ambition

..and plenty more don't regardless of their parents efforts, why is it Rashford had to make the Govt pay out for free school meals during hols time? do poor families get free food from Asda in the summer term?

I don't think you have any idea of some peoples struggles.[/quote]
Rashford grew up under a Labour government so his lived experience was not a conservative one.

@Beckert

Left wing fanaticism

Exactly this.

Can you put that into words, what is Left Wing Fanaticism ?

Which manifesto pledges were fanatically left wing and would have been damaging to the country ?

Nah, not from here. We have a good Prime Minister I'm very proud of and can trust.

That's nice. Not sure why you're so obsessed about Boris then if it doesn't impact on you, but hey, that's the way of the extreme left isn't it.

if it doesn't impact on you

I live here but am not from here. It does impact me.

Extreme left This country has never had extreme left. And I am not extreme left. I like a well functioning, fair society with equal opportunities and good public services, reasonably priced housing and a good, egalitarian education system. But I can see that in this class obsessed country where it's all about one-upmanship people consider that 'extreme'.

This country has never had extreme left.

Much of labour is extreme left. It's not a popular position. That's why labour won't be getting in any time soon. It will take years for them to persuade people to have confidence in them again in any meaningful way. They haven't even started to try.

Since the Greens, Lib Dems and Labour are fully in the self ID camp. A Tory MP Maria Miller started the ball rolling by not consulting women's groups AFAIK but at least the Conservatives have held back from putting it into legislation.

The trans debate came to prominence because in 2017 the Conservative Party decided to reform the GRA. The starting point for the minister in charge (Justine Greening) was TWAW @crosstalk.

@elodie77

if it doesn't impact on you

I live here but am not from here. It does impact me.

Extreme left This country has never had extreme left. And I am not extreme left. I like a well functioning, fair society with equal opportunities and good public services, reasonably priced housing and a good, egalitarian education system. But I can see that in this class obsessed country where it's all about one-upmanship people consider that 'extreme'.

Ha! There is an extreme left who shout loud and get nowhere

Left wing fanaticism is a race to persuade most/many people to think they are hard done by and need the playing field levelled in their favour. If work pays, then people will work. And it can be pushing water uphill if you are a widowed single parent with a disabled child who needs 24 x 7 care... but that is not the majority of the population: maybe 5%?

And whether you like it or not, the majority decide via the ballot box, and ATM the public mood is in favour of taking personal responsibility with family help, rather than increased public spending. No way would I be writing an open cheque to a political party-- of any colour. There's not enough in GDP to fund the NHS's wish list, even if the NHS got the whole pot, so someone, somewhere (Like all of us here) is going to have to be asked to choose our preferred balance between pensions and health and education and justice. You cannot have it all. So there will be some version of rationing the spend, somewhere in the system, whatever. Does your 85-year-old relative get the latest cancer drugs to extend life a few months at vast expense, or do you spend the same money rehabilitating someone of 50 who has had a heart attack, but who might return to decent quality of life; go back to work and continue to pay tax? Do we fund IVF or improve paediatic/neonatal care? These are choices we have to make for the NHS because it isn't possible to do it all.

We have a right wing Tory government - helped into power by Nigel Farage, who drew his support from defunct BNP and the EDL. Can't get much further right than those abominations.

Just leaving this here

“ Left wing fanaticism is a race to persuade most/many people to think they are hard done by and need the playing field levelled in their favour. ”

Are you saying that we don’t have systematic inequality in the UK ?

Which of the 2019 Labour manifesto pledges were “extreme left” ?

You're focusing on the wrong place... Nigel Farage drew his support largely from the small tradesmen who work hard to do what their customers want (like my builder or plasterer, or the electrician who moved my light fittings). They think, having put in a full week's work from 7:30 am when they leave for work until 5:00pm, possibly plus Saturday morning, that they should have an input into how their taxes are spent, rather than politicians deciding they they know best. Their priorities are practical, and yes, they expect to earn enough for a decent life, with a holiday every year and food everyday. They expect the NHS to see their wives through breast cancer treatment, and the kids' asthma and appendectomies. Because they pay for it (possibly not all of it -- my glasses are NOT that rose tinted).

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, yep, that's exactly what I am saying.

We do not have systematic inequality in the UK. Like every country in the world, we have some clever people, some ambitious people, and a lot that just want a peaceful, happy healthy life.

XingMing Nigel Farage drew his support largely from the small tradesmen who work hard to do what their customers want

Utter tosh. He drew his support from right wing nuts who thought migrants were taking 'their' jobs, housing, lengthening their NHS lists or who simply did not like people who were not white! You could see them at his every outing - turning the Union Flag into the Union Joke. They specifically targeted areas of high immigration to get their votes - it was not uncommon to say they wanted out of Europe to get rid of Pakistanis and Indians (Geography clearly not their strong point!). Farage, like Fascists before him everywhere played on racism to work up the populist vote (just like Trump).

So - where is the baying mob he wound up since Brexit? Refusing the jobs the migrant workers did in the fields, the slaughterhouses and on the roads - amongst other things. And where is Farage now?

If you seriously think Johnson is a PM that is good for this country there is something wrong with you. Even his own party have woken up to the conman that he is.

If you seriously think Johnson is a PM that is good for this country there is something wrong with you. Even his own party have woken up to the conman that he is.

I don't think Johnson is good for this country. I also don't think labour, as it stands, is good for this country. Between the two, there isnt much, but I'm certainly not going with the party who refuses to acknowledge what a woman is. That ignores the threats against women such as Rosie Duffield, for daring to speak up for women's rights. Why on earth would any woman vote for a party that won't even acknowledge their sex based rights I do not know.

Why on earth would any woman vote for a party that won't even acknowledge their sex based rights I do not know

There are many other policies to consider not just this!
Great example Johnson and Hancock have shown for their respect and love of women! Ask Nazanin Zachariah-Ratcliffe how valued she feels by Johnson and the Tories.

You say you would love to hear why but then go in to a bit of a rant so my guess is you probably don't really