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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not wanting to make plans with my friend to take our toddlers out

125 replies

blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 13:22

After my toddler wakes and we have breakfast I would go out for a bit to either run errands or go to playgroups . Around 12:30-1 he will have his nap for two hours then won’t sleep until night time. I’ve recently gotten him into this routine and he’s been sleeping the whole night for the first time so I don’t want to ruin it . My friends son who is also the same age as my son has a different routine. He tends to go bed late around 2am meaning that he wakes up later on in the day around 12-1 . As a result every time we try to make plans to go to earlier playgroup sessions which run around 11:30 she’s unable to make it and cancels . She wants us to go to the later session which is around 1:30 after her son wakes up. The only issue is around 1:30 is my sons naptime. I did try to compromise and went once at this time which resulted in me having to wake my son up during his nap . He ended up having a second nap very late in the evening to make up for it and as a result went bed very late after 12am and didn’t sleep well that night. So I decided that I didn’t want to do that again. I’ve asked that she maybe get her son to wake up earlier in the morning for like 10:30 -10:45 and maybe it could help get him to bed earlier . But she says that she can’t do earlier than 12 as she’s sleeping too. Which I understand but It’s hard to compromise in this situation. I just don’t want my son to start going bed late and ruining his bed time routine which will happen if I keep interrupting his naps. I’m thinking about not making any future plans because of this. I would rather go by myself to the earlier session. Ideally I would like to tell her that making plans to go to these sessions won’t work because if I follow her schedule as it will result in my toddler going to bed very late as it has before and I don’t want that. But I feel like saying that would sound as if I’m being judgemental towards her parenting decisions as she allows her toddler to go bed late . Any suggestions on how to express this to her without her feeling judged.

OP posts:
GrumpyLivesInMyHouseNow · 13/12/2021 16:22

Tell her it doesn't work for you, but you're happy to do something velar later in the day. I'd still consider a 3.30 play date tbh

JumparooSavedMyLife · 13/12/2021 16:33

I'd just say her suggestion doesn't work but you'll see her at the morning sessions if she decides to get her toddler into a better routine. Who on earth sleeps until 12? I've just returned from mat leave and have a 9 month old who still wakes throughout the night, even with the sleepless nights I have never stayed in bed beyond 8am, it wastes the day.

GetOffTheTableMabel · 13/12/2021 16:37

She is very happy to say ‘no’ to your suggestion of a morning meet-up because she prefers to maintain her toddler’s routine. You should feel completely comfortable doing the same thing. If she gets difficult with you for doing exactly what she is doing then she’s not much of a friend.

And people criticising you for not liking to travel on dark winter evening are probably car drivers who live in safe areas. When DD1 was a toddler, I wouldn’t have liked to be out with her after it got dark because we didn’t live in a nice, safe neighbourhood. And buses get busy and so are more difficult to manage with a buggy from 4pm onwards.

pictish · 13/12/2021 16:54

Personally I couldn’t be arsed trying to work around someone who keeps those hours through choice. 2am - midday? Nah piss off. If she wants to sleep half the day away it’s up to her…I wouldn’t be attending a late afternoon playgroup to fit in with it.

blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 17:09

@GetOffTheTableMabel yes I agree . Also this is the same here too. The buses are very busy around that time too

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blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 17:18

@JinglingHellsBells I also think she is aware that her toddler bedtime hours are too late.ive only offered opinions when she’s asked . I’ve offered suggestions on what she could do based on things I’ve read online when she told me she wanted an earlier bedtime , but hasn’t done any of those things I suggested so I’m assuming she’s comfortable with it because if she wasn’t she would have done something about it .

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doadeer · 13/12/2021 17:20

Your routine sounds very normal. Hers sounds very odd.

Just say your son sleeps then. You either meet at 3 or not at all until they are more aligned. 🤷‍♀️

ponkydonkey · 13/12/2021 18:37

Look if that's the way she wants to do things fine, but you don't have to fit in with her frankly crazy bed time routine... that kid is going to massively struggle at school if she doesn't sort it out sharpish!

Just say no it really doesn't work for me...

The end

Make new friends at playgroup

tangyandsalty · 13/12/2021 18:40

Might not be the point of the thread but why is her son in such a ridiculous sleep routine?

blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 19:05

@tangyandsalty I am not sure. i dont believe she did it intentionally but based on some things shes mentioned it sounds like since he was younger she would take him to bed when she went to bed which was very late . so his body adjusted to a late bedtime. He has always had a late bedtime since he was a baby

OP posts:
CheesyFootballsAreEvil · 13/12/2021 19:09

Does she work funny shifts or something?

blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 19:12

@CheesyFootballsAreEvil no shes a stay at home mum

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Snowmanuel · 13/12/2021 19:26

It just seems to me like you are making your friend out to be a bit of a shit mother while you have your child in this perfect routine. She doesn't let him sleep until 2am and won't meet up before 12 because she's sleeping too hmm

I wondered that. Seems extreme. Also it’s not hitting a nerve with me either (directed at PP), I was luckily blessed with a baby that did 7-7 from eight weeks.

aloris · 13/12/2021 20:01

It sounds like she's in a vicious cycle. If her toddler is awake till 2 am, she likely would be exhausted if she herself tried to wake up at, say, 9 am. On the other hand, with the sleep cycle she's on, she'll find it very hard to have a social life or even get any errands done. And it must be quite hard, mentally and physically, for her to be entertaining a toddler at 1 am.

I myself have a child who is a night owl, and has always been like that. There is a little bit of heredity to it, I believe. My other children have reasonable bedtimes. (One of my children puts himself to bed at 9 pm every night, it's wonderful. He just says, "I'm tired" and goes to bed!) The night owl child could keep himself awake, seemingly by some sort of magical ninja power, until 2 am, no matter how little sleep he had the night before. No method worked, we worked with therapists and everything. So I completely sympathise with your friend.

One thing I found with my night owl was that he gave up nap a lot earlier than other babies. So by 18 months, any daytime napping would really mess up his nighttime sleep. Without nap, he was still awake very late (10 pm or 11 pm) but at least I was able to get him down before midnight.

I think she can still do softplay at the afternoon session that she likes, that will allow him to get some activity which might help him fall asleep earlier; it just means you won't be there.

Other things that helped me with my night-owl toddler were trying to expose him to the sunlight in the morning, to reset his biological clock (or at least to prevent it going too far off-course) and planning my day so that I could keep him awake during the time of day he would prefer to nap. That is, I didn't plan any chores that would take me away from paying attention to him at the time he was prone to napping, so I could sit with him and keep him busy during that time.

I think it would be hard for her to get a night owl child onto a 7pm to 7 am schedule, but maybe she could gradually shift his waking time backwards from 11 am, a half hour every few days, until he's waking up at 9 am. I think that would be sustainable and would give her a lot more options for her social life. It would also be nice for her mental health if she had a couple of hours free of child-watching at the end of the day.

I wonder if something she could try would be a nice morning routine outside that they could do together. Like a nice hot cup of cocoa in the garden (or on the outside step, whatever is available) and listening to some of their favorite tunes together. That might help him stick to a morning schedule.

I know I missed the point of the thread but if you can tell her this came from a mother who also had a night owl baby, maybe you'll be able to pass on some of those ideas without offending her.

blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 20:13

@Snowmanuel

It just seems to me like you are making your friend out to be a bit of a shit mother while you have your child in this perfect routine. She doesn't let him sleep until 2am and won't meet up before 12 because she's sleeping too hmm

I wondered that. Seems extreme. Also it’s not hitting a nerve with me either (directed at PP), I was luckily blessed with a baby that did 7-7 from eight weeks.

i mentioned shes sleeping at that time because she obviously would be tired from staying awake so late. i didnt mention it to make her seem like a shit mother.
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blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 20:19

@aloris thank you , that is helpful i will mention it to her when the conversation comes up again . I also do believe some babies are naturally night owls. Mine is one and could never be put into a 7-7 routine. I have had to wake him early and cut down naps to get him into reasonable bedtime around 8:30-9 and that is still considered late to others . So i can relate to an extent.

OP posts:
Sceptre86 · 13/12/2021 20:29

it's not an issue for most people being out in the dark if they have a car. If you don't drive or rely on public transport then I wouldn't want to be waiting for a bus with a toddler in the dark either, it's different if needs must but I wouldn't choose to.

That is by the by though, ultimately your routines don't match so I would just say that. Either arrange to go for a coffee whilst yours is asleep in the pram or if it's more a case if wanting the kids to play she will just have to accept it isn't possible at this time.

The op doesn't appear to be judging her friend negatively and she has said her friend wishes the child would go to bed earlier it's just the routine they have got stuck in.

RedRobin100 · 13/12/2021 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mary46 · 13/12/2021 20:45

Hopefully a time will suit you both. Op I had a friend babies few months apart but felt I was always suiting her day. So just be wary

Bunnycat101 · 13/12/2021 22:19

I don’t know why you’ve had a hard time for not wanting to head to playgroup at 3.30. I have to take my toddler to her sister’s gymnastics class after school and it is a proper pain in winter. Because it’s dark she’s prone to sleeping in the car buggering up bedtime, it’s much busier out and about and car park safety is much trickier in the dark. I would definitely not be choosing to take her out at 4 if she wasn’t following an older sibling around. In the summer it’s infinitely easier. I’d just say to your friend you’d look at meeting up in the spring when hopefully things align a bit better for both the children.

Flittingaboutagain · 13/12/2021 22:30

Re car safety: I was coming back from an event at 5.30pm tonight and the car park had dozens of cars in it but me and my baby were the only people in it at the time. A car of young men drove in and went round and round us at speed, making me feel so panicky, worrying they were about to try and steal my car and what if they did once the baby was inside etc. It was really intimidating behaviour, round and round whilst I hurriedly packed up the pram. I won't park there again and I won't be going out in the dark in a hurry.

Flittingaboutagain · 13/12/2021 22:30

Re car safety: I was coming back from an event at 5.30pm tonight and the car park had dozens of cars in it but me and my baby were the only people in it at the time. A car of young men drove in and went round and round us at speed, making me feel so panicky, worrying they were about to try and steal my car and what if they did once the baby was inside etc. It was really intimidating behaviour, round and round whilst I hurriedly packed up the pram. I won't park there again and I won't be going out in the dark in a hurry.

blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 23:51

@Bunnycat101 if the playgroup starts at 3:30 then I’d start heading home for around 5. I just don’t want to be waiting for a bus with my toddler when it’s dark and cold. I also have to take into consideration that I could be on the bus and a disabled person needs a spot or I can’t go into the bus because there’s no space so there’s no guarantee how quickly I’d get home. I also don’t feel it’s safe when it’s dark so I’d rather be home before . But I think your circumstances are different , if I was in your shoes I’d do the same .

OP posts:
blueberrybabe · 13/12/2021 23:59

@Flittingaboutagain reading this gave me chills , I’m glad you and your baby were safe . It’s things like this make me panic too which is why I’d avoid going out when it’s dark especially with a baby. I’ve never experienced that but I’ve had guys try to speak to me or give me looks etc all whilst I was with my baby and I found it very intimidating so I can only imagine how you felt

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blueberrybabe · 14/12/2021 00:02

@Sceptre86 yes we’ve been out together before with the kids whilst mine slept for most of the time in his pram but with her it’s more of the case of wanting the kids to play because she said her son doesn’t really have kids his age that he interacts with . But I guess for now until our routines merge or maybe around spring we could do dates invoking kids

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