Not wanting to make plans with my friend to take our toddlers out

[blueberrybabe]

After my toddler wakes and we have breakfast I would go out for a bit to either run errands or go to playgroups . Around 12:30-1 he will have his nap for two hours then won’t sleep until night time. I’ve recently gotten him into this routine and he’s been sleeping the whole night for the first time so I don’t want to ruin it . My friends son who is also the same age as my son has a different routine. He tends to go bed late around 2am meaning that he wakes up later on in the day around 12-1 . As a result every time we try to make plans to go to earlier playgroup sessions which run around 11:30 she’s unable to make it and cancels . She wants us to go to the later session which is around 1:30 after her son wakes up. The only issue is around 1:30 is my sons naptime. I did try to compromise and went once at this time which resulted in me having to wake my son up during his nap . He ended up having a second nap very late in the evening to make up for it and as a result went bed very late after 12am and didn’t sleep well that night. So I decided that I didn’t want to do that again. I’ve asked that she maybe get her son to wake up earlier in the morning for like 10:30 -10:45 and maybe it could help get him to bed earlier . But she says that she can’t do earlier than 12 as she’s sleeping too. Which I understand but It’s hard to compromise in this situation. I just don’t want my son to start going bed late and ruining his bed time routine which will happen if I keep interrupting his naps. I’m thinking about not making any future plans because of this. I would rather go by myself to the earlier session. Ideally I would like to tell her that making plans to go to these sessions won’t work because if I follow her schedule as it will result in my toddler going to bed very late as it has before and I don’t want that. But I feel like saying that would sound as if I’m being judgemental towards her parenting decisions as she allows her toddler to go bed late . Any suggestions on how to express this to her without her feeling judged.

I’m pretty surprised by the amount of people who wouldn’t go out in the dark! It’s prettt much the shortest day now and sunset will get progressively later. In a month time it won’t be dark until nearly 5 (unless you’re pretty far North!). Or just invite her round for coffee and let the toddlers play later in the afternoon?

I can't help but feel a little judgey at the 2am

I can't quite understand anyone putting a toddler to bed at 2am.

Toddler in my parenting days meant a child over 2.

Why would anyone keep their child up to 2am? And at what time do the parents go to bed? If they go to bed at 2am what time do they get up for work?

Most toddlers I know of now are in bed by 7pm.

Stick to your routine OP. Your friend's situation sounds bonkers. 2am is no good for the parents much less the child...

Just say something like ‘I think groups will be tricky while their routines are out of sync, but you’re welcome to pop round for coffee at x time so we can have a catch up’

Just say it's a shame your children have such different schedules and hopefully by the time they're both at preschool they will be more in sync and you'll be able to meet up a bit more

2am though!?

@JinglingHellsBells Both of our kids are 18 months. And she doesnt work , she stays at home. But She goes bed around that time too. I dont believe she keeps him up on purpose. She has always gone bed late and woken up late even before having a baby so i think her toddler gradually into the same routine as her. My toddler doesnt go bed at 7 though he goes bed around 8:30-9 but im okay with that because he only sleeps for 10 hours so if he went bed at 7 he would be up at 5 am.

@DrinkFeckArseBrick yes i thought so too

[quote blueberrybabe]@JinglingHellsBells Both of our kids are 18 months. And she doesnt work , she stays at home. But She goes bed around that time too. I dont believe she keeps him up on purpose. She has always gone bed late and woken up late even before having a baby so i think her toddler gradually into the same routine as her. My toddler doesnt go bed at 7 though he goes bed around 8:30-9 but im okay with that because he only sleeps for 10 hours so if he went bed at 7 he would be up at 5 am.[/quote]
So is there another parent at home who goes to bed earlier or are they all up to 2am?

She's making a rod for her own back.

It's not natural to keep a young child up till that time. Children need daylight and fresh air. So creating this semi-nocturnal sleeping pattern where he doens't get up till 1.30pm is not good.

It will take a longer time for him to adjust when he needs to be at school or pre school.

Can't you help her to appreciate this?

@JinglingHellsBells how do you think her friend will start to respond when OP decides to educate her on her routine and why it's not great?

Somehow I doubt her response will be "oh good point, thanks. I hadn't thought of that."

Also, at this time of year, it's dark by 4pm, so her child is not really getting much natural daylight. From a health point of view, that's bad and may even affect his development as well as his sleep patterns. Adults need a certain amount of daylight in order to sleep well. it's all about circadian rhythms!

[quote girlmom21]@JinglingHellsBells how do you think her friend will start to respond when OP decides to educate her on her routine and why it's not great?

Somehow I doubt her response will be "oh good point, thanks. I hadn't thought of that." [/quote]
No idea. If I heard a sensible 'argument' based on health benefits for my child, I might just listen. It depends if her friend is willing to learn. Or not.

Somehow I think anyone who sends their (presumably PFB) to bed at 2am isn't going to listen to reason.

It's just basic common sense that kids shouldn't be up at that time, isn't it?

I’d just say when you are free to meet. If your times don’t match just say never mind let’s chat again in new year about meeting up. Things change, naps get dropped etc.
If your child is awake late afternoon but you don’t fancy going out you could invite her over for them to play.

@JinglingHellsBells i see what you mean but its not my place . shes mentioned wishing he would go sleep earlier and we spoken about that and tips on what to do. But she isnt proactive in making it happen so im assuming shes okay with their arrangement. i guess since she doesnt like waking up early it works for her right now .

Hokd on .. her child goes to sleep at 2am?

A toddler going to bed at 2am what kind of system is this.!

@Dixiechickonhols yes ive done that before. She does prefer to go out though to go playgroups and be out of the house as lockdown got in the way of doing things in the earlier days

I think having them over for tea is the answer really.

[quote blueberrybabe]@DontKnowWhatToThink7 I don’t think she keeps her toddler up late on purpose . She has expressed to me that she wished he would sleep earlier but I think it’s just a routine that he’s fallen into naturally .[/quote]

I think if your friend does express again that she wishes her son would sleep at an earlier time that you suggest she have a chat with the health visitor to see if she can help her with a plan to get her DC's bedtime at a more normal time . They will struggle enormously when they come to start school / nursery .

Does your friend drive? Could she bring her DC round to your house in the afternoon? Or could you afford a taxi occasionally to get home if you were to visit her?

Leaving aside any subjective judgments, I don't think either of you are being unreasonable. You just have completely different – and currently incompatible – routines. If it doesn't suit either of you to change those routines, you just won't be able to go to playgroups together.

You said in your OP that you would rather go to the earlier sessions even if it means going by yourself. So do that.

Your toddler's sleep is completely normal. Playgroup and things do tend to happen in the morning and for a reason !. I am assuming she wants to meet at 1pm ? Otherwise how is her child seeing any light at all ?

[quote blueberrybabe]@JinglingHellsBells i see what you mean but its not my place . shes mentioned wishing he would go sleep earlier and we spoken about that and tips on what to do. But she isnt proactive in making it happen so im assuming shes okay with their arrangement. i guess since she doesnt like waking up early it works for her right now .[/quote]
Well it is your place in so much as you can't meet her when it suits HER, as it doesn't work for you and your child. MOST babies of 18 months have a nap after lunch and their day is winding down by teatime, when SHE is ready for hit the town!

I wonder if you can be friends when your parenting styles are so different? if you are afraid of suggesting she adopts a more sensible routine for her baby (in the nicest way!) it doesn't sound much of a friendship to be honest.

Just say it doesn’t work for you, and go to the early session

If you can then sort out a time for a meet up that suits both of you fine, if not then don’t meet up, your child will soon find other friends

I had an NCT friend whose DC had an incompatible nap schedule with mine. I compromised a lot of times am moved my Dcs sleep (DC1 was a very good sleeper, friends DC was in fairness a terrible sleeper). Ultimately her rigid nap routine killed the friendship though as she was either late for or bailed on most things we arranged.

I’ve asked that she maybe get her son to wake up earlier in the morning for like 10:30 -10:45 and maybe it could help get him to bed earlier

You're right that there isn't an easy compromise. You tried adjusting your schedule to suit hers and it sounds like you're not keen to do it again. So at least you tried it her way, but ultimately don't ask her to change her schedule if you don't want to change yours. Just don't meet at structured activities with fixed times.