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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Prívate vs state Primary education

109 replies

ClumpyMascara · 12/12/2021 19:29

DH wants to send twin boys to private Primary school - he was privately educated and I wasn’t, he feels very passionately about it.

While I have no quibble with them going to private secondary, where I do believe you can see the benefits, I don’t see the point in private primary? We have great state primaries near us and the education they will get won’t be that different?

It just seems like a waste of money - we aren’t super well off but his parents are going to help (and agree with him)

Most of our friends have done state primary, private secondary with their children

OP posts:
PercyThick · 12/12/2021 23:42

I'd take a very good state primary and secondary any time.

I know many families whose kids attend private schools. There is one things that all of them have in common: a huge sense of the world owes them and their kids. I wouldn't want my dc to adopt an air of super confidence, which is one of the top selling points of private school. I also don't want my children to only interact with a narrow strata of society. Many private schools have a huge intake area and local friends are hard to come by. A great local schools wins hands down for me.

Changechangychange · 12/12/2021 23:53

I think there are usually two reasons for sending kids to private primary - first one is that prep schools “prep” kids for the entrance exams, or offer straight-through places - all of the kids at the private schools near us are guaranteed a place at the secondary school regardless of academic ability.

The second reason is that you don’t have to mix with undesirables. This can be as innocent as wanting to avoid disruptive kids/knife crime, or as malignant as wanting to social-climb/avoid the poors.

Kids with SEN are usually better cater for in the state sector. My friend has recently pulled her daughter out of her super-selective primary because, while she is incredibly bright and was coasting with the work, they could not cope with her ODD. The state school love her and she is thriving (the state school is also giving her more stretch work to avoid boredom triggering a meltdown, something the private school apparently couldn’t manage).

Usernamehell · 13/12/2021 09:35

@GonzoFlyingProducts you phrased it better than I could. Exactly the reasons we invested in private from 4 and the pandemic highlighted it all.

DD's school had a full online timetable from first day of first lockdown with all specialist teachers. The children did not miss out at all from the academic perspective. The local states had a story or 2 in morning online and then worksheets throughout the day which were not marked or viewed by the teachers. I don't for a second blame state teachers - I know they are phenomenal but they have so much to do and a fraction of the resources they should have to do it with.

We have paid for private to give them the solid base and grounding and enforce a love for learning and education. We have only just started our journey but I can see exactly what I am paying for and am very happy with the school for her.

You will get some ridiculous perceptions on here about people paying because they don't want children to mix with 'undesirables' or that those from private think the world owes them something but in reality, the overwhelming majority who go down that road do it because of the education and opportunities it provides. Other things don't feature in the decision. We are extremely fortunate that we have things we can sacrifice in order to pay the fees. That does not mean my children are better than those in the state sector or deserve better jobs when they grow up. They will need to work hard and prove themselves to get that.

boltz · 13/12/2021 09:43

Depends on the options & sometimes the dc. I would chose an excellent state primary over private but a child may need to be prepped to get into secondary schools.

TooMuchPaper · 13/12/2021 09:45

I wouldn't be happy that his parents would have a say. If you need their money to help pay the fees I would think twice.

boltz · 13/12/2021 09:46

and watch them develop into people who then cruise through senior school (of any type) with astounding success.

That's nonsense & not a guarantee at all.

GratS · 13/12/2021 10:08

@ClumpyMascara
SEN care is often much better in state schools, think your DH might have outdated info in this.

CruCru · 13/12/2021 10:21

I don't have a view on whether your state or private school are better (depends where you live and what you are looking for). What jumps out at me is that we aren’t super well off but his parents are going to help (and agree with him).

How much are his parents going to help? Does this mean that they will effectively pick your children's schools? If something should happen that means they won't be able to help any more (retiring on a lower income, running out of savings, having more grandchildren to help, God forbid - dying), how much of a hole will you be in? Fourteen years is a long time to be dependant on financial help.

Dixiechickonhols · 13/12/2021 10:29

My DD went to private primary and I believe it set her up for a successful and happy time at school.
15 in a class, in infants they had a teacher and a ta. High standards of behaviour - they noticeably stood out in a good way at events with other schools. There was a lot of emphasis on basics, not the endless topic projects and dress up days. Lots of opportunity for public speaking and extras like poetry vanguard and English speaking board. Very working parent friendly - wrap around without pre booking, longer hours, only school in town open on a snow day etc. Grammar school area so included prep for 11 plus. School was more diverse than state primaries and lots with some additional needs - it was popular with parents with children who needed a bit of extra attention but wouldn’t qualify for support in state.
My DD is yr 11 now and talks fondly about primary school and can see how it benefited her.
All you can do is compare the schools and see what feels best fit.

Tanith · 13/12/2021 10:36

DS went to a prep school on a bursary; DD went to a very popular state primary.

There is a huge difference in the education they received, the facilities to which they had access, and the ethos of both schools.
DS's experience far outstripped DD's and I find it ridiculous that some on here are so desperate to promote state education that they are claiming there is no difference.

As for those outstanding grades, many outstanding schools haven't been properly inspected for years! Their rating is completely out of date, often gained before Austerity measures stripped their funding.

I agree there are good and bad schools in both sectors, but the good state schools can't touch the good preps these days.

SoftPillow · 13/12/2021 10:53

I went to an ok state school, and was totally miserable. My DH went private all the way and our kids are similarly private.

The benefits seem to be:

  • smaller classes with lots of individual attention
  • our DC are making excellent progress, ahead of peers, although they aren't incredible bright (bright but not exceptional)
  • music provision is fantastic (choirs, performances, tuition in multiple instruments from specialist teachers)
  • range of sports. My 7yr old is playing hockey, netball, swims and does gymnastics at school.
  • drama studio, specialist art and D&T rooms. Lots of time in the curriculum for creative activities.
  • genuinely caring ethos, child led, lots of playtime, time outdoors, large and varied playground.
  • very strong pastoral care, excellent attention to detail, smallest issues picked up on and sorted out ASAP
  • new reading books daily, encouraged to read a wide range of subjects and stretch their skills. Children very curious and encouraged to be inquisitive.

I don't see these things from friends at state schools. They aren't unhappy at state, but they aren't hugely enthusiastic either. I guess their schools are fine, they're happy enough.

The very popular 7+ entry which tend to be from state, tell me that others agree but obviously it's hugely subjective to each individual situation.

boltz · 13/12/2021 10:57

As for those outstanding grades, many outstanding schools haven't been properly inspected for years! Their rating is completely out of date, often gained before Austerity measures stripped their funding.

This is true & if choosing state don't just look at the grades.

boltz · 13/12/2021 11:03

It just seems like a waste of money - we aren’t super well off but his parents are going to help (and agree with him)

I know it's common but this would worry me so it depends on your relationship. Mine are a little controlling!

RandomLondoner · 13/12/2021 11:03

DD went to a desirable state primary. It would have been a huge hassle and much further traveling to get her to a private primary. (We knew one local person with a child in private primary, mother spent hours each day in her car.)

Although her primary was wonderful in many ways, it was virtually impossible to get any understanding of how she was doing academically, even when explicitly asking teachers in face-to-face meetings. (I still have my primary school report cards, from the 1970's, from a state school in another country, where we got detailed grades, and a teachers comment, for each of several subjects, at the end of every term. And from about year 3 onwards had to sit formal exams, day after day for a week or two, and actually pass these, to be allowed to proceed to the next year. The British system feels like it's supposed to work by osmosis, provided you ensure a child is regularly in a classroom until age 11, no need for anyone to check how or whether they are learning anything.)

When DW signed up DD to a tutor, who asked her to write an essay, she apparently drew some pictures. Ten to twenty thousand pounds of tutoring later, she scraped into the only private secondary school that would have her, after being wait-listed.

Oddly, although (as far as we can deduce) she worked her way up from below-average to average across her primary school career, her first report card from secondary is mostly B's with a sprinkling of A's. Maybe I don't understand British grades, but to me that sound quite good, for someone who's supposedly barely academic enough to be there.

Another new experience since she started her private secondary, is her insisting on her doing her homework, so she can get the grades she wants... (She's never voluntarily done school work before.)

5foot5 · 13/12/2021 11:07

@ClumpyMascara
SEN care is often much better in state schools, think your DH might have outdated info in this.

@GratS Not just SEN care but also the other end of the spectrum in some cases.

A friend of ours sent his sons to a local private prep. There aim was to get them in to the local private secondary at 11 - this is selective so the private prep they used was very much one whose raison d'etre was getting children through the entrance exam for this and other private secondaries in the area.

There eldest son was bright and at some point they reached the conclusion he was "gifted". However, they were dissatisfied that the school appeared not to be stretching him or giving him any special attention and he was getting bored and frustrated in class. When they went to see the teachers they found the attitude was very much "Why are you worrying, he will get through the entrance exam easily". It seemed as though they were happy to let the bright kids coast and concentrate on bringing the others up to the required standard.

Of course, this might not be the case in all private schools but I think just re-emphasises that just because somewhere is private it is not necessarily better.

Dixiechickonhols · 13/12/2021 11:19

Yes especially in grammar area a lot will have tutoring out of school so yr 6 sats results might be fab but not down to school.
Do be careful if monies are from grandparents. Can they afford it eg what if they needed to move to care home and fund that instead. Would they expect a say eg pushing them to very academic secondary when you feel more rounded school a better fit.
You know your children best. Ask lots of questions. Things like specialist teachers, how often books changed, instruments, how much sport etc.

sopsmum · 13/12/2021 11:24

Just to provide a bit of a different view, I have state educated all of mine at primary and now moving into private for secondary. We have been fortunate that our local primary is currently top 30 (parent power list), outstanding for years and recently reassessed as outstanding. It's an affluent area with house prices to match, parents are almost universally lawyers, doctors and accountants with lots of Sahm. About half of private for secondary. It's becoming more culturally diverse but is still predominantly white middle class.

If we had more money I would have gone private for primary in a heartbeat. Smaller class sizes means more attention when it matters. More money for enrichment. Better sports facilities. Better wrap around care. Better food.

Yes, my children's academic results are unlikely to be different to those that went private all through (in fact my eldest is holding their own on that), but school is about so much more than that.

One of my sons is very sporty. He plays for 3 clubs and attends lots of extra after school practise. Always selected for the more competitive teams and doing very well in the local league. He's year 5. If he were currently at the private school I hope he goes to for secondary he would be playing full games in his games lessons on incredible grounds. He would also have (included in the fees) access to lots of extra curricular coaching and be regularly playing for his school. He has never represented the school at his current primary (in fact none of the boys in his year have although the girls do seem to play netball).

He would also be in a much more culturally diverse environment.

But I can't afford it, so we are saving for secondary instead and are very privileged to be able to do that.

RomainingCalm · 13/12/2021 11:28

How much are his parents going to help? Does this mean that they will effectively pick your children's schools? If something should happen that means they won't be able to help any more (retiring on a lower income, running out of savings, having more grandchildren to help, God forbid - dying), how much of a hole will you be in? Fourteen years is a long time to be dependant on financial help.

This is a really valid point. If DPIL's circumstances change, what's the contingency plan? Can you find £2000+ each month for fees for 2x DC?

Before you start choosing schools you need to know exactly what your choice really is.

TuftyMarmoset · 13/12/2021 11:42

Do you need wraparound care? I think private schools tend to have a better offering on this and also offer holiday clubs which would potentially swing it for me.

ClumpyMascara · 13/12/2021 12:45

The wraparound care is better at the private school and a big plus, but we also have the benefit of two sets of younger grandparent (50s) who have the time and energy to do school runs for us at the moment.

This sounds vulgar but I don’t know another way of putting it - the in-laws are mega rich and don’t have any other grandchildren, with my husbands brother having sadly died. We don’t rely on them for anything financially at the moment but there isn’t a worry that they wouldn’t be able to carry on paying for the children’s education.

I’m a nurse in the private sector, currently part time but will go full time when the boys’ younger sibling goes to school.

Husband is a sign language interpreter so we can both be subject to unsociable hours.

OP posts:
DeepaBeesKit · 13/12/2021 17:38

We can afford private quite comfortably. We aren't bothering. DH went private from 3, I never went at all, yet we've achieved similarly in terms of academia, extra curricular and career. I had parents who valued education, provided plenty of support at home, lots of opportunities (music lessons etc). If you are doing these things anyway and your children are reasonably bright it's likely they don't need the advantages of private anyway.

Bit like taking vitamin C when you already have a good diet. Very expensive piss.

ClumpyMascara · 13/12/2021 17:55

W also have the advantage that the boys’ birthday is very early September so they will be practically 5 when they start

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 13/12/2021 18:14

Deepa makes a good point about support at home and extra curricular opportunities bring important in state. Both Working full time with 3 young children it will be difficult to do that hence why some busy working parents prefer the all inclusive aspect of private - no need for ferrying them to swimming lessons or music as it’s all done as part of school day.

thepeopleversuswork · 13/12/2021 18:15

I personally don't think private primary is worth the money except for the "coaching to get into the secondary" element.

ie the prep for the 11+ part of it.

If you are absolutely determined for them to go to a private secondary it might be worth it on that basis.

As a pure return on investment thing I'd say not really worth it and in any case you can coach privately.

Kdubs1981 · 13/12/2021 18:15

Speaking from experience, it can very difficult to start private school aged 11 and not knowing anyone. Just something to think about