Prívate vs state Primary education

[ClumpyMascara]

DH wants to send twin boys to private Primary school - he was privately educated and I wasn’t, he feels very passionately about it.

While I have no quibble with them going to private secondary, where I do believe you can see the benefits, I don’t see the point in private primary? We have great state primaries near us and the education they will get won’t be that different?

It just seems like a waste of money - we aren’t super well off but his parents are going to help (and agree with him)

Most of our friends have done state primary, private secondary with their children

My eldest three daughters went to private primary school and are still reaping the benefit now at university. I’ve run out of money and got divorced and was unable to send my son the difference is just miles apart, the girls were able to do so much better at senior school because it had all the ground in the primary school done with them. I knew there was absolutely no way we were gonna be able to afFord all the way through so as I say we spent our money laying the foundations and I have absolutely no regrets.

*19:59BananaDrama25

I'm SLT in a private senior school and I can assure your there is a massive difference between state and prep educated children. You can spot them a mile off at interview and they settle much better into school life*

What an absolutely ghastly and snobbish thing to say! I hope you are never 'SLT' at any school my children go to; I'd hate for someone who thinks like this to be anywhere near them.

Our local state primary is very sought after, good ofsted etc. The reality once we were in was quite a big let down and we took both kids out half way through. One was bored and had given up on a lot of areas of learning due to being totally uninspired, the other was just cruising along in a very disruptive class, not many friends etc. Best thing we ever did, there is no comparison between the 2 experiences. Both kids are much happier and getting an awful lot more out of their day to day experience. We’re very glad we weren’t still at the local school during lockdown, I know that was a very challenging experience for everyone but by all reports, it didn’t step up at all.

Yeah I agree with you, I've not seen much that's better than state in my experience. I'd save for secondary.

I would consider the twin aspect also. Private school possibly 1 small class which means a very small pool of friendships. Perhaps less chance to be independent and autonomous from each other.

The only problem with waiting till secondary is if they need to sit an entrance exam, the state schools won't prep for this. Depending on the number of applicants and how selective the school is, they may not get a place.

If your child is able, I think state till 8 is ideal. Best of both worlds with local friends, part of community, etc. If your dc needs additional support or is likely to struggle then a smaller class will likely benefit them earlier.

Same situation, went for state (outstanding) primary. 4 terms in and DS is starting at the local private school in January. He ended up in a class of 30, with significant behavioural issues in many of the children, and a complete unwillingness to differentiate work for more able pupils. He has barely progressed in the past year. I think we’ve been unlucky but taking him to visit his new school made our minds up really quickly, he said the children were kind and not violent!

DD (Y5) and DS (Y8) have been in private since nursery/reception, in a straight through school. It's been fantastic for them, small classes, they are both very sporty and the sports facilities are superb. Having their own swimming pool means even in nursery they had weekly swimming lessons. They've been able to compete against other schools since Y3, in netball, hockey, cross country, athletics, swimming, rugby, football, cricket etc etc which was important to us.

It's worth considering how much more competitive it is to get a private secondary school place - mine have to sit the same entrance exam as external candidates to go through to Senior, but it's virtually unheard of for a Junior School pupil not to pass, so there are essentially 60 places already allocated when external candidates take the exam. We didn't have to pay for tutoring. The wraparound is also brilliant (7.30am - 6pm) as the school realise that most families have two incomes to facilitate paying fees. Lockdown provision was outstanding, a full online timetable from Y1 onwards and they haven't fallen behind at all. There are very few behaviour problems, either disruption in class or with friendship groups. Feedback from teachers is detailed and regular and staff are always on hand to speak, if you e mail them, you will receive a response within 24hrs - usually much quicker than that.

I will echo a PP, in that SEN provision isn't great. Fortunately we haven't had to use it, but speaking to other parents, if there are mild needs, they are great, but they are not set up to deal with severe dyslexia/ASD.

It very much varies from school to school though, we looked at state and private and for us, there was no contest, but that's only comparing our local state schools to the privates and what we felt would best suit DC.

@AngelicaElizaAndPeggy it's not snobbish, purely observation. They are more confident, have wider interests and, in my experience, are usually more accomplished due to the huge amount of experiences they are exposed to. I didn't say it was a good or bad thing, just that they settle into our school life quicker.... which they do!

Make of it what you will but it's true!

@BananaDrama25

I'm SLT in a private senior school and I can assure your there is a massive difference between state and prep educated children. You can spot them a mile off at interview and they settle much better into school life

Which ones settle better?

Depends how you think long-term. Do you plan private secondary as well?A 4-18 private one? Do you take all fee increases into account?

We are in a London borough with good private and good state schools. Most parents try state first unless they are underlying issues as some of the state ones are par with most of the public ones and grammar. Some private only go until Y11 so you don't have the advantage of priority admission to 6th form lots of secondary have for their own pupils.

We moved to make sure we had a decent choice for state as we think it's nuturing which is important in early years, not a hothouse.

DD5 attends a prep school, we chose the independent route almost entirely based on class sizes (her class has 11 children).

We chose her specific school based on their ethos (they prize creativity, sport, learning through play, and encourage confidence), it's racial diversity, and the fact it's not a hot house environment like some of our local independent schools are.

*its racial diversity (sorry for typo).

What can you afford. If you can afford both just do it, he's right most private school will have better provisions for lots of things.

If you will be stretched then don't do it and save like mad.

@BananaDrama25 that's as much to do with what parents spend money on and disposable income.
Maybe your state schools parents spent it on tutors to get in and not other stuff whereas those who were at your private primary have more money and the preps do it all for them.
Maybe you are attracting a certain type of applicant; maybe it's the ones parents don't think will cope at state schools as they aren't confident etc
All the (state) DC we know in our relatively affluent area use great state schools and do tons of extra curricular; sports, music, drama,scouts etc.
My own DC do loads clubs at state school and stuff every night to a good level. They couldn't fit any more into their days.
They are all bright, articulate & streetwise.
Academically our state school does as well as private's when adjusted for intake.
(But it all costs money).
There's a lot of misconceptions about state high schools in particular.

Depends on the school and your children- there is no single right option.

We went private prep, now private secondary. I can say, without a single doubt that private prep provided a far, far better education than our local state options in every way I can think of. I can see that from the experience of friends/colleagues with one notable exception where the state school coped ad it’s my with a child with SEN and some difficult behaviours resulting from that. I also compare the truly woeful education my niece and nephew received at their state school and am really glad we had the choice to go private.

Perhaps if we had very good state school locally, or a reason to think the state school was a better option, we might have chosen differently. For us it was absolutely worth it.

@ClumpyMascara you really need to both go and visit both options.
I can honestly say that all 10 primaries within a mile of us are very very good. They don't have massive sports fields or swimming pools etc but they do have choirs / music provision / drama / forest school and basic sports etc. Non could be described as poor or woeful.
Our 2 nearest preps on the other hand has no exciting playground equipment and have playgrounds that are concrete squares. They get tons of worksheet homework which isn't actually effective but parents like it.
I'd invest my money in uni & houses instead

After doing Reception at the Outstanding infant school next to our house, we moved DC1 to a nearby prep school for year 1. It's night and day. Much smaller groups for lessons. High-touch, individual approach to learning with a strong focus on pastoral care. The curriculum is varied and the facilities are outstanding too. Lessons are taught by subject specialist teachers. In just 1 term, I'm impressed with the leaps and bounds made from an academic perspective. Many of the extra-curricula activities we did on the weekends are now covered as part of the school day. I love that my 6 year old can chat in French and Spanish, adores drama, enjoys Art, is a much stronger swimmer, looks forward to forest school etc.

Banana - I guess it depends what you mean by a wide range of interests, I know plenty of privately educated people with very narrow interests

@PoshWatchShitShoes sounds fab. The preps near us aren't that good. They are just about getting entrance exams passed. That's what people are paying £12k a year per child for. Many still tutor on top and kids are still at all the local clubs on top, same as the state kids

@Fomofo

Banana - I guess it depends what you mean by a wide range of interests, I know plenty of privately educated people with very narrow interests

I'd second that actually. I sports coach both state & private DC in large numbers. I actually notice zero difference. There are entitled / confident / shy / nervous / outspoken / naughty / polite / rude / confident / quiet children in both camps. I know state school kids with loads of interests & private with none.

I think it depends on what primary schools are in your area. The right state primary can be as good as a private one. Private schools have the advantages of smaller classes, more opportunities etc. If you have the means to pay, I would consider it.

I'm sorry but just re-read your sentence again and tell me you aren't a crashing snob:

"They are more confident, have wider interests and, in my experience, are usually more accomplished due to the huge amount of experiences they are exposed to."

Perhaps you don't mean to, but you come across as hugely offensive and exactly the type of private school cliché that puts so many state parents off private education.

I, like you, did not see the point in state primary.

Half way through, we switched to private. I'm shocked by how far behind her privately-educated peers DD already was - not so much at academics (which were fairly similar, as DD had a weekend tutor), but in fitness levels, confidence, public speaking, knowledge of sports/art/music, and happiness...

The teachers at our local state school were overworked, under resourced, and perhaps as a result were often bad tempered and rude to very young children. Bullying went unchecked, teaching materials often contained basic spelling errors, and there was never a plan. The experience crushed DD and she was miserable, often crying on the way there. At private, she comes out every day saying she's had a wonderful time. She's sad when weekend/holiday arrives because she'd rather be at school.

Perhaps we just had a bad state primary and a great private prep near us. But I wish we'd done prep school from the beginning. It's sad seeing her so far behind the others and more importantly she had several years of being miserable during the day when she could have been having a fab time.

Look at the schools local to you, talk to as many parents as you can and be very careful about your choice. In particular look for where your child will fit in and somewhere that bullying is dealt with firmly.

The thing is that "they education they will get" WILL actually be that different.

People imagine that the difference is: State School says "1+1 is 2" and Prep school says "1+1 is 2 and that will be fifty quid" but it's just not that simple.

My three all went to prep school then on to state Grammars and it was the early years that made the difference - learning good French and Latin, a grounding in the classics, a huge emphasis on an absolute proficiency in maths and English (and provision for LOTS of extra help if needed that only a private school can offer). By the time they got to eleven and were ready for secondary school they were confident, independent, scholarly and in love with learning - that is what prep school can give kids in a way that state primary school simply never can. Plus of course the school had amazing facilities, a pool, loads of inter-school competitions in gymnastics and netball and cricket not to mention in chess and maths - state schools just can't afford to do the "extras" that you get from prep school. Their French teacher will be French, their music teacher will be a jazz pianist, the cricket coach will have played for England - prep school kids get the BEST of everything and once it's in them it's in them for good - it's not fair - but it's real.

My advice would be to spend the money EARLY and get them into prep school (although you had better have had their names down from birth for any of the good ones in any major UK city) and watch them develop into people who then cruise through senior school (of any type) with astounding success.

But in the end remember - the kids who do best in education are those who are supported best AT HOME. Don't order them to do the homework - take a real interest in the homework. Don't just praise their drawing of the Tower of London - take them to the tower of London.