to think health professionals shouldn't shame people

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

My son did not get a Covid jab. His rationale was that his risk of serious illness was very low even if he contracted it, and that all those who are at high risk have now been jabbed. I don't agree with that argument, and have had all 3 jabs myself, but respect that that is his view. He also suffers from anxiety and panic attacks.

He finally decided to have the vaccine, as he realises that various restrictions might impact on him (Covid passports etc) if he remains unvaccinated. So he went off yo the walk-in centre to get one this morning.

He's just got home fuming. When he presented himself, the person registering him asked him why he hadn't had his jab earlier. Why would that be any of their business? He then went through to the vaccinator who asked the same thing. He did explain that he had changed his mind because he wants to go to concerts and to visit his grandparents abroad. The vaccinator then said "that's a very selfish attitude, you won't have a vaccine to prevent people dying but you will to go on holiday".

Surely Health Professionals ought to be encouraging people to get vaccinated, not shaming them? I've given him grief about not getting vaccinated but I'm his Mum and he lives with us. I volunteer in a vaccine clinic and have always made a point of being really positive towards everyone who comes for their vaccine. AIBU?

if you didn't go for a smear test for some years would you be happy at being lectured for not going sooner?

@fakereview it’s not a lecture. It’s a comment. I’d be fine with a nurse pointing out that it wasn’t a good idea to have missed my regular smear tests. Especially if we were in the midst of a cervical cancer pandemic.

Likewise, I’m currently attending all of my antenatal appointments for the well-being of my unborn baby. If I was refusing scans and medical supervision because “I’d done my research” and was “ultrasound and blood test hesitant” I’d expect a bit of an education too.

So op is double vaxxed and had her booster and volunteers in a vaccine centre. Amazing how many negative vaccine posts are from people who seem so keen on the vaccine

Anyone attending for a vaccine should be welcomed- not judged.
So many reasons that people may not be vaccinated.
My 24 yo son has only had his first vaccine 3 months ago, not sure when or if he will have his second.
People's lives can be complicated.

@anniegun

They were right. The healthcare professionals are getting pretty fed up with dealing with the consequences of people not getting vaccinated

They were wrong because he had turned up to be vaccinated. The last thing they should be doing is giving him grief. Do they want him to go back or not?

Many women have struggled to get a smear test (mine was nearly a year late)

The comparison isn’t the same

Our lives are being restricted the more people are vaccinated the better for ourselves health wise and for how we live within society, for our economy, for how the health system can operate, for schools and so on

I wish the government would just make Covid passports law (apart from the very few who can’t have a vaccine) if you choose not to be vaccinated you loose out but you still have a choice

The vaccinator has probably be working in the hospital and absolutely overwhelmed with it all and see how I'll those unvaccinated are. I applaud them for saying that to your son. The unvaccinated are putting a huge strain on the health service. No excuse not to have it.

He will go back out of his choice not because he didn’t like to hear the truth

Or he will use it an an excuse

@fakereview I will also tell people to brush their teeth, use interdental brushes and floss until I’m blue in the face, if they want to keep all of their teeth. A lot of people won’t do it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth pointing out what they “should” be doing for their health. I don’t really care if that offends people.

@multiplemum3

Myself, and so many previous colleagues, have left the NHS from burn out. I wouldn't bite my tongue from selfish people either

The NHS is probably better off without you if that's your attitude. I suppose you'd be moaning if a patient told you to shut up when you didn't bite your tongue.

God forbid health professionals speak the truth

if you choose not to be vaccinated you loose out but you still have a choice

Do you think the vaccine will protect you from either catching covid or transmitting covid?

@uhohspaghettiohh

The vaccinator has probably be working in the hospital and absolutely overwhelmed with it all and see how I'll those unvaccinated are. I applaud them for saying that to your son. The unvaccinated are putting a huge strain on the health service. No excuse not to have it.

If they had such a shitty attitude then I would guess that there were not an HCP that has had training on how to be non-judgemental... they could well have been someone who works in a Co-Op but has volunteered in a vaccine centre. If I manage to get the strength to get to a vaccine centre, being shamed will result on my turning on my heel and going home. How would that be helpful? You do not attract flies with vinegar.

@AuntieMarys

God forbid health professionals speak the truth

God forbid health professionals treat patients with anxiety with respect and empathy.

I'm supposed to be having my booster on Tuesday. DH will explain to them that I have a needle phobia and if they aren't understanding about it I'll be off even if I have to walk home. It's enough of an ordeal to go without having to deal with someone coming out with so called advice that I don't want or need.

@Derbee

All these “vaccine hesitant” people like your son (because they don’t like antivaxer) are the first to be shouting about their rights to an opinion etc etc but as soon as someone gives their opinion, it’s mean and rude and unnecessary.

Sooooooo tiresome and boring

@Derbee did you miss the part of the OP where it said that OPs son was there to GET VACCINATED? Berating someone for deciding to do the right thing is utterly stupid and possibly counter-productive: it could put people off coming for the jab. Healthcare "professionals" are there to treat, not to judge and should keep their opinions to themselves. It's ridiculous to infer that everyone who got their vaccinations on time was doing it for non-selfish reasons; most people I know were relieved at the reduced risk to themselves.

Lastly my DD's boyfriend (not in UK) is reluctant to be vaccinated after his best friend, aged 26, dropped dead from a sudden death syndrome the day after his 1st vaccination. There are many reasons why people are reluctant and delay having the vaccine; surely we should just be pleased when people do?

I agree with them but no, they shouldn't have said it. It's not helpful and it will put people off going.

Similarly I had to go to the dentist last week for the first time since 2019 because I lost a filling. I was anxious about it because of how long it had been, plus I'm autistic and really struggle to have someone crowding me, touching my teeth, etc. I get overwhelmed and can melt down so, shamefully, I avoid it and try to take excellent care of my teeth by myself.

Anyway, I follow the dentist into the treatment room and I mention that I'm nervous and have a lot of anxiety about being there. He repeatedly made shitty, snarky comments throughout the appointment about how he could tell I was anxious because of how infrequently I go. I felt two inches tall and ended up snapping at him all the reasons why, and I told him it was a bit more complex than me just deciding not to visit the dentist for no bloody reason. It made me feel so embarrassed I don't want to go back, whereas if he'd just done his job and not made a big deal about things I would have been put at ease. Even if he thought it, just don't say it because he proved my anxiety right

Very unprofessional of them to say those things. If someone spoke to me like that, I would quite happily tell them not to lecture me and attitudes like they will stop people going back for a 2nd.

I think they were better off not saying anything although I’m sure everyone was thinking the same. We all have bad days and I’m sure everyone has said something they later regret. I don’t think saying you’re getting vaccinated because you want to go to a concert was the most diplomatic comment either. I think if you want understanding and sympathy about your sons position you might also extend some to the HCPs and write it off as a bad day.

All these “vaccine hesitant” people like your son (because they don’t like antivaxer)

And that would be because there's a difference.

'Be Kind' was soon forgotten wasn't it?

I’ve just booked my booster. I’m not having it because I give a shiny shit about any of you, I’m having it to protect me from a very small chance of serious illness, and because at some future point the government will make my life more difficult if I haven’t had 3 doses.

Of course it’s acceptable.

My friends needs knee replacements but she’s too fat and needs to lose weight before they’ll add her to the waiting list, the surgeon told her that, no sugar coating.

As a HCP I have to question and advice patients on their lifestyle choices, even if it’s not related to their current presentation. No one wants to hear they drink too much or need to lose weight but health promotion is a hot topic currently as it helps save the NHS £££

@Prinnny I fully disagree with you there.

As a HCP, two things come to mind.

• in the example of your friend, the equivalent of what happened here is your friend loosing all wThe weight needing, coming to see the consultant to have her knee surgery only to be berated to have been too fat in the first place, and being shamed for it too.

Would your friend find that acceptable or wouod she find that insulting? What do you reckon?

• as a HCP shaming people is NEVER Ok. Yes you give them some life style advice, tell then to lose woe tht, eat vegs, stop smoking. But a HCP worth their salt would not shame peole about it. Advising people and shaming them are two different things and I hope that as a professional, you are able to make the difference.

I know it doesn’t completely

But it reduces the risk to myself becoming very unwell and needing hospital treatment and their is a reduction in passing it on

Plus wearing a mask also helps

And another I am not having to self isolate every few weeks for 10 days so I am not putting pressure on my colleagues

Not particularly professional...

But HCPs are human too...

@amusedbush, I had a dentist doing something similar with me and my dc.
I never took my dc back.
(I did take him to see someone else who was great and actually professional, that is no judgemental)

I don't think I would get worked up about it.

If the vaccinator was NHS staff, they will have had such a hard time over the last year or so, and be so frustrated and angry with people like your son, to tell him the truth is not really all that bad. I would not say they were rude, just honest, you OP even agree with them ?

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

All these “vaccine hesitant” people like your son (because they don’t like antivaxer)

And that would be because there's a difference.

'Be Kind' was soon forgotten wasn't it?

There isn’t really a difference. It’s a bunch of people who mistrust medical advice and trust their own “research” more. They also base most of their opinions on anecdotal stories of my friend’s neighbour’s son’s teacher’s uncle got sick, and it was most likely due to the vaccine.

“Vaccine hesitant” is as kind as I will be towards the new sub group of antivaxers