To say that there is a huge amount of anti vax threads allowed on mumsnet?

[visitingagain]

I fully expect this to be taken down but I am getting completely fed up with the number of anti vax and anti mask threads on mumsnet at the moment. People should be allowed to express views but some of the misinformation is shocking.

There are at least three topics and terms on Mumsnet that aren't allowed.
And if I mention them here @Sparklingbrook then the thread will get removed.
That's apparently not dictatorship @BrightYellowDaffodil but obviously anyone who thinks there's no debate to be had over vaccines and masks is censorious, blinkered and hard of thinking. Probably would be better off in Korea or China.
It totally amazes me that there are so many people who hate the precautions taken for this particular disease so much that they would argue for all kinds of misinformation, whataboutery and red herrings. On this thread we have already had what about " deaf people" "people with disabilities " and " real side effects".
These are legitimate problems but they don't mean that we should all stop with the mitigations and vaccines now and " have a debate".
I can't think this would be the same for smallpox, Ebola or any kind of horrible fever. Its such a weird phenomenon.

It’s terrifying how many people on this post think their opinion is right, that censorship is ok, that statistics and information can’t differ from different sources (and be legitimate and verified yet still opposing).

I’m vaccinated and I think that’s the right thing to do but key word being “THINK”. It’s fine for people to think otherwise. It’s fine for people to quote things which are discredited or not verified - someone else can come and explain why it’s not correct: that’s the point of a discussion forum ffs.

“I can't think this would be the same for smallpox, Ebola or any kind of horrible fever. Its such a weird phenomenon.”

Isn’t this the point though? If it was a disease with a high death rate then people would take more measures.
We can see this mild for the majority of people so people think of it differently.
We have the freedom (or should have) to make a personal risk assessment. Especially if already recovered from Covid.

@Justheretoaskaquestion91 people don't just come on innocently to ask though, unless they've been living in caves there's plenty of information out there so why come on mumsnet to ask " does anyone find masks make their eyes turn stripy ? " or " I'm not an anti vaxxer but does anyone find that the site where they microchipped me attracts metal objects?"

@TheScenicWay I would quite like my life expectancy back, before you suggest this disease has a low death rate

The problem you have op with the stance of "we are past debating" is that the advise changes on a regular basis. The science is ever evolving. That's why it's important to allow discussion on covid measures including vaccination.

The changes on timescales on vaccines for the under 18's for example didn't come with a big fanfare. I read it on here. If there wasn't conversations surrounding whether people felt comfortable vaccinating their teens and if people felt it was necessary if their teen had covid then than vital information may have gone unnoticed.

Vaccinations in particular should be informed consent. That can only be achieved if both pros and cons are discussed, without one side telling the other that they are stupid.

People should be able to discuss their fears and concerns without being shut down.

The minute you say that the conversation shouldn't happen you lose the argument.

@Justheretoaskaquestion91

It’s terrifying how many people on this post think their opinion is right, that censorship is ok, that statistics and information can’t differ from different sources (and be legitimate and verified yet still opposing).

I’m vaccinated and I think that’s the right thing to do but key word being “THINK”. It’s fine for people to think otherwise. It’s fine for people to quote things which are discredited or not verified - someone else can come and explain why it’s not correct: that’s the point of a discussion forum ffs.

Agreed.

I listened to Nicola sturgeons announcement today and she was using statistics in a less than fully disclosed way to back up what she was saying. I can't stand it.

I can read the numbers, and while she wasn't incorrect in what she said, she didn't go on to explain other aspects of the numbers which were important to understand the whole picture rather than using them to make her point.

@visitingagain

I'm sorry you don't like being called anti vax *@Whatwouldscullydo* but vaccine hesitancy is just a posh word for it, you either get a vaccine or you don't. No one was ever promised by medics that we wouldn't need boosters ( as we do for flu) unless you got all your information from the Fail and believed in freedom day. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, yes - that's an opinion about your own feelings. Do you think everyone should be entitled to express those opinions as if they were facts?

Actually, we were told that two vaccines would mean we are fully vaccinated and have as much protection as possible. I’ve barely listened to any news about it (including in the ‘fail’) because I have actively avoided it, but I did watch most of the Downing Street press conferences and we were very much given the impression that two vaccines would give us all the protection we need.

True that the possibility of boosters was never ruled out, but this isn’t a different vaccine with a different target like the flu vaccine that changes every year. It’s the same one that were being expected to take, for the third time in the same year. It is not at all comparable to the flu vaccine for that reason.

@LakieLady

Anti-vaxxers drive me mad. If they'd been around in 1800, we'd still have people dying of smallpox. Not to mention disabled by polio, dead from measles and damaged by rubella during pregnancy.

They were. In spades.

A thing I have seen posted again and again is vaxxed people are the same as unvaxxed, and just as likely to transmit. No. Yet it is posted on every thread.

It frustrates me that because the vaccine is not 100% effective, people think it is as good as ineffective.

@CaliforniaDrumming

A thing I have seen posted again and again is vaxxed people are the same as unvaxxed, and just as likely to transmit. No. Yet it is posted on every thread.

It frustrates me that because the vaccine is not 100% effective, people think it is as good as ineffective.

The "just as likely to transmit" is one that gets me as well. However, things are just too socially and politically polarized black and white.

The accurate way of presenting it would be...Vaccinated are less likely to transmit, but less likely does not mean unlikely.

These are legitimate problems but they don't mean that we should all stop with the mitigations and vaccines now and " have a debate".

Its a good job then that most people are taking vaccines and wearing masks.
As of today 89% of people have had their first vaccine, 81.2% have had a second vaccine and already 38.6% of people have had a booster. The majority of people where I live are wearing masks, many continued to do so in the supermarket even when the mask mandate was lifted. In my local area I have noticed an increasing number of people wearing masks outdoors.

Whatever you think about people who can't or won't get the vaccine or are undecided it's fairly evident that antivaxx views are not having a huge impact on vaccine uptake. Why are you so bothered when all evidence suggests people are capable of making up their own minds and taking action to protect themselves and others.

That's great news @FOJN but don't worry someone will be along I'm a minute to tell you it's not the full picture!

@CaliforniaDrumming

A thing I have seen posted again and again is vaxxed people are the same as unvaxxed, and just as likely to transmit. No. Yet it is posted on every thread.

It frustrates me that because the vaccine is not 100% effective, people think it is as good as ineffective.

Oh they love that one. It's the gold standard cherry pick. Yes, the vaccinated can of course pass on Covid as much as the unvaccinated. BUT ONLY IF THEY'VE GOT THE FUCKING THING TO PASS ON IN THE FIRST PLACE which is between 65 and 95% less likely.

Well, given that words have no meaning any more as evidenced by a bunch of people not wearing masks is "horrifying", then what would an emaciated third world village be considered?

Sure, go ahead and throw all the hyperbole at me, call me what ever names you want. I fully embrace them...and will carry on about my own business.

Met my first real life anti vaxer this morning.

They were walking up and down the queue while I was waiting for my booster jab pointing and swearing at everyone and telling us we were all sheep and why vaccines didnt work 🤦🏻‍♀️

It made an otherwise boring wait entertaining and this is how I will now picture all anti vax posters 🤣

@WeAllHaveWings

Met my first real life anti vaxer this morning.

They were walking up and down the queue while I was waiting for my booster jab pointing and swearing at everyone and telling us we were all sheep and why vaccines didnt work 🤦🏻‍♀️

It made an otherwise boring wait entertaining and this is how I will now picture all anti vax posters 🤣

It’s basically what the anti-vaxx posters on here do anyway I almost admire the dedication of someone doing it in rl and risking a punch in the face.

The weird thing is in real life I barely know any anti-vaxxers, maybe 5 out of 60+ friends & acquaintances (and those are friends of friends who I don't have any direct contact to). However MN is crawling with tin-foil hat types who think they know "the truth" and are "horrified" at totally banal things that are logical measures in a pandemic. If you read any covid thread you'd assume 30-40% of the population are anti-vaxx, anti-mask etc.

I'm also surprised so many threads are left up. Before covid, many anti vaxx threads were swiftly deleted for misinformation (eg the classic mmr causes autism argument). I can only imagine that MN is receiving massive amounts of traffic and need the ad revenue with pre-xmas high CPMs.

Weirdly, I know 3 at work. All have ‘done their own research’ . One has just spent 2 months off and a couple of weeks in hospital. That’s where misinformation and bad research gets you, I suppose. They are also very mask averse and of the Let It Rip persuasion.
There might be others, I don’t know, because they don’t wang on about it constantly.

It’s basically what the anti-vaxx posters on here do anyway grin I almost admire the dedication of someone doing it in rl and risking a punch in the face.

They reminded me of the 'end of the world is nigh' highstreet preachers, I havent seen one of them for years. Think they were more at risk of a pity overdose than a punch.

@Saucery

Weirdly, I know 3 at work. All have ‘done their own research’ . One has just spent 2 months off and a couple of weeks in hospital. That’s where misinformation and bad research gets you, I suppose. They are also very mask averse and of the Let It Rip persuasion. There might be others, I don’t know, because they don’t wang on about it constantly.

It’s so disturbing that even hospitalisation doors to get through to these people. I know a doctor working in the US who has patients in ICU who don’t believe him when he tells them they have Covid. How the hell he and his colleagues keep on treating those patients with respect is beyond me.

*doesn’t get through to these people

In her mind, the vaccine is still worse. She’s otherwise a lovely person, but total blind spot about the way vaccines work and how any side effects are much more manageable and treatable than Covid side effects. Her GP told her she’d be better off with the vaccination but still some nut job on the Internet knows better as far as she’s concerned and her family nearly lost her because of it

@User20393442

The weird thing is in real life I barely know any anti-vaxxers, maybe 5 out of 60+ friends & acquaintances (and those are friends of friends who I don't have any direct contact to). However MN is crawling with tin-foil hat types who think they know "the truth" and are "horrified" at totally banal things that are logical measures in a pandemic. If you read any covid thread you'd assume 30-40% of the population are anti-vaxx, anti-mask etc.

I'm also surprised so many threads are left up. Before covid, many anti vaxx threads were swiftly deleted for misinformation (eg the classic mmr causes autism argument). I can only imagine that MN is receiving massive amounts of traffic and need the ad revenue with pre-xmas high CPMs.

Either that, or people DO have concerns/objections but daren't speak up in RL.

The right to chat shit is in the English Bill of Rights. Mumsnet is not an academic website with a responsibility to only post factual information. There's even a disclaimer at the top of each thread.

If someone is going to make a big life decision, such as getting vaccinated, from reading a post on mumsnet then they are just as likely to be swayed by Facebook, Tiktok or twitter. Censoring websites to only repeat information that the government/law makers deem to be true is not a road we want to go down. I enjoy hearing all the different opinions and theories, but that doesn't mean I'm going to believe every one of them.