To say that there is a huge amount of anti vax threads allowed on mumsnet?

[visitingagain]

I fully expect this to be taken down but I am getting completely fed up with the number of anti vax and anti mask threads on mumsnet at the moment. People should be allowed to express views but some of the misinformation is shocking.

Eh, terms that once had actual meaning such as anti-vaxxer and the various -ist and -phobe labels have been so over used and misused as a bludgeoning shaming tactic that they are meaningless now.

So you call me an anti-vaxxer? Ok, sure thing. Now what?

The problem with using labels like these as a tool to shame and silence is that not only do they stop working after a while, requiring even stronger words, they also drive some people to the very thing that they weren't, but were accused of being.

My views on things do not align in any way with what traditionally anti-vaxxer meant, yet I am now shamed into that group, so...

I'm an anti-vaxxer. Now what?

If you really thought there were too many threads about vaccines, you wouldn’t start a thread with that title.

What you want to do is push your side of the valid argument and debate and silence the other. Your point is not more worthy, and you don’t have the right to judge what people talk about. If there are a lot of threads about it, it’s because it’s a big issue for people just now.

I got both my vaccines. Now that the goalposts have been changed, it’s good to have space to discuss different aspects of the problems.

@changingstages yes, its very weird isn't it...but thats what I see when observing people where I work and in two branches in neighbouring towns

especially this last week since restrictions were brought back in. its an afterthought

Ah must be really frustrating OP. Solution for you - How about setting up your own forum where only your opinion on right or wrong is allowed?

I don't want my own forum.I just want this one to be free of a whole load of threads full of people who mix up opinions with facts and spread misinformation.Quite obvious from some of the pps.

Funnily enough I never see this on any other social media or around here, people are desperate to get their boosters and the only anti vaxxer I know of has just spent 3 weeks in hospital with covid, previously a very fit outdoors type in his 30s. Probably thanks to all the people who think their opinions are more important than medical knowledge and sowed seeds of doubt in his mind. Thank god he wasn't a pregnant woman or someone with cancer. He's probably done more to persuade people to get their jabs than he planned, sadly.

When people throw around insults and dehumanising language and lables it makes you seem uninformed and u willing to dicuss.

The term antivaxx applies to people who's entire lives is about rejecting vaccines and medical treatments etc.

It does not apply to people who have questions about a vaccine which has now turned Into three vaccines fir which there is no long term data and is still technically in the experimental phase. I would say that's a valid question/concern.

Even calpol has side effects. Why the side effects from this cannot be discussed with accusations of lies I don't know. There is no substance without poison. Even water can kill you.

The dismissal of the menstrual effects and the taking seriously of the pericarditis being discovered in healthy males is sign enough of the misogynistic approach of the vaccine information gathering akd release. I find ut disturbing we aren't allowed to discuss it and that so many wonen on here would rather just shout " liar or antivaxxer" than listen.

Besides if you want medical information you don't go to a chat forum but medical Web sites. Here we should be able to discuss anything not just stiff people agree with.

A scrappy damp bit of material pulled out of a pocket after being worn multiple times, then shoved on with unwashed hands.... yeah, right, really feel confidant seeing that
I work in a clinic and collect my patients at the door. I have, and continue, to observe them pulling masks out of their pockets, brushing lint off and putting it on their face.
The patients are offered medical grade masks, but most prefer to keep their cloth mask which I'd put good money on the majority of them not washing it much, if at all.

I certainly don't think people have a right to have an opinion about whether masks or vaccines are effective.

This is an incredibly scary statement. People have a right to opinions you may disagree with or think are misinformed. I usually see anti Vax and anti mask statements robustly challenged.

I think debate about the usefulness of masks is perfectly valid, there are many factors which affect whether they work as intended or not, to pretend otherwise is disingenuous. Robust debate on the issue may be educational for people so the discussion is worthwhile.

I've had two vaccines, the third is booked, I wore a mask before they were mandated and continued to do so even after we were no longer required to. I have managed not to treat others, who think or behave differently, with contempt even if I find their reasoning frustrating.

@Tootsey11

Well I'm sick of the threads were if someone is unsure or just doesn't want the vaccines, other posters pile on calling them thick stupid selfish anti vaxxers. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Same

@Whatwouldscullydo

We can argue the toss about the definition of “anti vaxx”. I wouldn’t agree that you need to have committed your life to the movement to fit the definition to have an irrational perspective on vaccines. This is what some of us find frightening: there is lots of anti-science rhetoric coming from people who are not your traditional antivaxxer.

I think the definition is irrelevant though. What you said about a vaccine “turning into three vaccines” shows a really poor understanding of how this works. By definition vaccines have to evolve because viruses evolve.

I don’t think your statement makes you stupid or a rabid antivaxxer but it is worryingly factually incorrect. If people like you don’t understand these basic principles then we have a problem.

Totally agree. I was told the other day by some nutter that the vaccine isn’t even a vaccine, and we’re all sheep.

Reported to mumsnet, and they’ve allowed the comment to remain. So everyone can see that said idiot has “done their research” and “the so called vaccine isn’t even a vaccine”

It’s shocking on here a lot of the time

@visitingagain

I don't have a problem with different opinions but I do have a problem with misinformation. The only different opinion you can have on vaccines and masks is " I don't like them" and anything else you want to say about them is misinformation. Funnily enough a whole lot of posters now turn up to censor me for being censorious

The only different opinion on vaccines is "you dont like them"? Really?? There are lots of different, valid, opinions on vaccines. And mask wearing can be so much more complex than " don't like them".

So it censorship you are after. That's far more dangerous than people discussing different views on covid.

Maybe there would be far less threads if people accepted that other opinions are allowed.

I'm sorry you don't like being called anti vax @Whatwouldscullydo but vaccine hesitancy is just a posh word for it, you either get a vaccine or you don't. No one was ever promised by medics that we wouldn't need boosters ( as we do for flu) unless you got all your information from the Fail and believed in freedom day.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, yes - that's an opinion about your own feelings. Do you think everyone should be entitled to express those opinions as if they were facts?

Im not having the vaccine. (Blows huge raspberry and runs away)

Hi @tigger1001 masks do work though, so why do you think your opinion that they don't needs to be expressed? What purpose does that serve?

@MrsBerthaRochester

Im not having the vaccine. (Blows huge raspberry and runs away)

🤣

I agree OP. And then any thread about for instance race can go up like a puff of smoke.

It's wrong.

I don’t think your statement makes you stupid or a rabid antivaxxer but it is worryingly factually incorrect. If people like you don’t understand these basic principles then we have a problem

What's to understand. Everyone has the right to decide what they do with their bodies. That applies to People you dont like doing things you disagree With. See that's the trade off. Your right to a secind opinion or choosing between treatments comes with the price that someone else has the same choices.

Same with opinions.

You can tie yourself up in knots trying to prove everyone right or wrong but ultimately it's their choice to make.

So it censorship you are after. That's far more dangerous than people discussing different views on covid.

I'd go further and describe it as rabid authoritarianism and it's more terrifying than misinformed or poorly informed opinions on vaccines or masks could ever be.

@ErrolTheDragon

I think MNHQs view is generally that misinformation usually gets robustly rebutted, which may be preferable to 'censorship' both in terms of getting correct info out there and also not pandering to antivax/conspiracy theorists persecution complexes.

It's the inconsistency that is the problem. You never hear that argument allowed to stand with posts that touch a Mumsnet sensitive area that they obviously focus on moderating. You can make a sweeping generalisations about men no issues, same comment about women "not in the spirit" likewise on race. I would just like consistency.

I see this sort of comment a lot. It’s bizarre. No one is recommending that sort of mask. No one at all. It’s not difficult to have a decent mask on your person to use when needed.
Why pretend that’s the case?

Because it is the case.

Don't you go out? Have you ever witnessed somebody remove a sterile mask from a ziplocked bag and put it on with hands that have been sanitised up to the elbow, and then not touch or adjust that mask again once it is on their face? I haven't. Not once. The vast majority of people whip out the mask they have had in their coat pocket/glove box for days/weeks and stick it on because they have to. It gapes at the side, they fiddle with it because it steams up their glasses, it's taken off at the supermarket door and worn the next time they nip in. Which study has found that this makes masks effective?

@visitingagain

Hi *@tigger1001* masks do work though, so why do you think your opinion that they don't needs to be expressed? What purpose does that serve?

Where did I express my opinion?

I'm in Scotland so no break in mask wearing here. But question for you. How come until now, (haven't checked for a couple of weeks) englands rate per 100k was the lowest in the uk, despite no mask mandate at the time? Certainly here masks have been required since they were introduced, and we also have since October covid passports for some events. Yet we had a higher level of covid.

People have different opinions. Many shaped by their own experiences. You don't get to say that their opinions are invalid.

Why are you scared of debate?

I do wonder about people standing observing people and their mask wearing. Long enough to notice it’s ‘damp’ and ‘grubby’, and that the masks always live in the bottom of pockets and handbags. Plus the wearer never washes their hands. That’s quite the study

I take stuff posted on the CV Topic with a huge pinch of salt on the whole. There are posters with agendas and some love a bit of scaremongering.

I wonder if it’s time for some sub sections? A Coronavirus AIBU maybe?

Exactly!!

Those of us working closely with the public witness this poor behaviour every time

Can't admit to being a saint about masks myself though. ... do we all honestly thoroughly wash our hands before putting one on/off? Sanitise? Not touch our mask/face at all whilst wearing one?

Bet we don't but someone will come along in a minute and say they do I'm sure...

@FOJN

So it censorship you are after. That's far more dangerous than people discussing different views on covid.

I'd go further and describe it as rabid authoritarianism and it's more terrifying than misinformed or poorly informed opinions on vaccines or masks could ever be.

I agree.

I really worry about the damage covid has caused - and I'm not only talking about the physical aspect of getting the virus. Society has been damaged. People now think it's perfectly acceptable to openly judge others. Whether it was meeting friends, or going out for longer than an hour, buying "non essential" things, or getting vaccinated or wearing masks etc. and they think their judgement means something.