AIBU to have requested single sex rape crisis therapy?

[IamSarah]

My local rape crisis centre offers a dedicated support group for trans and non-binary survivors and a women's group open to anyone who identifies as a woman.

After a male (presenting as male) turned up in the women's group I requested an additional group for women who were born women. This request was turned down and I was told that group support isn't for me. AIBU?

YABU: You shouldn't need an additional, exclusive group for biological women

YANBU: Under these circumstances, a single sex group just for biological women was a reasonable request

These groups should be single sex, not single gender. This shouldn't be allowed. It's disgusting that women can't feel safe in therapy. The whole bloody point is that you feel safe there.

Before anyone starts on the man hating accusations, yes, I have experienced sexual abuse and my therapist is male. I trust him more than anyone. But that should be the woman's decision, whether she is comfortable having a male in what should be a safe space. It's just not on.

@VestofAbsurdity

What if the trans person doesn't want other people to know that they are trans?

That's not a problem for the women survivors of rape to either sort out for them or help them with.

Yep. Women are not emotional crutches for the validation of males.

FOVAS (Female Only, Violence and Abuse Survivors) wrote this response to an awful Stonewall report where they didn't bother to ask the female service users.

fovas.wordpress.com/

We are extremely concerned about these proposed changes which will allow any biological male to easily self-identify “as a woman” with zero oversight, no medical verifications, nothing. As women this will take away our fundamental right to female-only spaces such as rape and domestic violence shelters, hospital wards, changing rooms, showers, prisons and so forth. This would make it very difficult for you to refuse any male in women’s spaces even under the Equality Act (2010) exemptions. We are surprised that we, as survivors, are having to explain to you, women’s organisations, why we don’t want biological males in our spaces but we have no choice but to speak out in the face of a barrage of online verbal abuse, death threats and threats of male sexual torture.

[quote IamSarah]@Pixiedust138 take a look at the recommendations in this report that now have formed the policy at my rape crisis centre.

Note only trans and non binary people were consulted about the policy. Women weren't consulted at all.

Even more infuriating there was no requirement at all for the trans or non binary people who shaped the policy of the rape crisis centre to have ever experienced sexual violence themselves (see induction process section).

survivorsnetwork.org.uk/resource/tnbi-group-report/[/quote]
Not consulting women is a huge mistake and doesn't help anyone.

YABU for starting another thread. We’ve had this topic already.

"This topic" is appropriate treatment of raped women and girls. How tiresome for you that you are forced to read a second thread about it. Do you have any inkling as to how you come across to anyone with genuine compassion for female rape victims, often with PTSD?

Not consulting women is a huge mistake and doesn't help anyone.

The policy should never have been set by one minor special interest group with people who weren't even affected using it as an opportunity for "activism".

It does seem like women are not being asked for their opinion. Although, this is where prioritising 'gender' above sex also comes into play. If you believe that for every purpose males who identify as women are women, you have officially collated the opinions of women.

See how this works?

Remember, there are politicians out there who have stated that if a board has 50% men and 50% transitioned males, that they feel that women are fully represented on that board. And this is not an exaggeration. This has been stated publicly.

@SweetPetrichor

YABU for starting another thread. We’ve had this topic already.

Oh really? Are we only allowed one post per topic or something. Only one baby names thread? One relationships thread? Only one primary school thread?

And only one parking thread?

And Sarah did not start the other thread

It says a lot about someone that they chose this thread to post their nasty, snarky thread police post on and none of it is good or reflects well on them.

To be fair I was expelled from the rape crisis centre meaning I don't have anyone to talk to IRL. It's not a light topic of conversation or easy for me to bring up, even with good friends.

I wouldn't be here annoying you so much if there was a group I could go to.

I couldn't care less if Sarah starts a 100 threads looking for help in dealing with the trauma she has suffered by those who claim to be there to support her!
Don't like it don't read them.
Or you can plop and run like the pathetic 2 posters on this thread have.

TW users had three separate choices of provision.

Male only
Trans only
Mixed sex women's.

Three.

Female service users get only the mixed sex option.

Females who cannot access any of those options? Get nothing.

There is no way to make this ok. To add a group for females who need it to access help in no way takes anything away or affects the TW service users . They continue to have their three provisions over female users' much lesser offer. They continue to have their full range of choice. To refuse to permit female people's needs to be met even when it in no way affects or harms their much better quality provision?

It's sheer dog in the manger. It's absolute indefensible intolerance. It's just sheer misogyny. These are women's services that now are inaccessible to many women.

[quote IamSarah]@Pixiedust138 take a look at the recommendations in this report that now have formed the policy at my rape crisis centre.

Note only trans and non binary people were consulted about the policy. Women weren't consulted at all.

Even more infuriating there was no requirement at all for the trans or non binary people who shaped the policy of the rape crisis centre to have ever experienced sexual violence themselves (see induction process section).

survivorsnetwork.org.uk/resource/tnbi-group-report/[/quote]
Which is crazy because it means they are unlikely to get the provision right fir transpeople who have been raped either….

I mean, what if we put these female untouchables in a shed somewhere a few miles away from the centre and they met only at three am in the morning so as not to upset anyone? What if we make them go barefoot and ring a bell chanting unclean as they meet?

Might these TW and their allies grant those female rape victims just a tiny fragment of access to help and support then? Pretty please?

Doubt it Artichokeleaves, they'd probably be accused of weaponising their trauma and making an unseemly fuss.

Someone was wondering about user's opinions on mixed sex v.s single sex services - there's some good stuff here albeit a bit dated now
mobile.twitter.com/caithness_pf/status/1102931852212559872

"99% (of the 297 women-only service users and providers asked) value women-only services"

[& HoardingSamphireSaurus 🍻 to you & all the other unsung women fighting to keep these services going]

I think those accusing them at this point have no remaining leg to stand on.

When it's no skin off your nose at all, and you have way better provision, all the provision, all the choices, all the centering,

what kind of an intolerant, heartless bigot do you have to be to insist that raped women must not have anything at all because you don't want them to?

Artichoke - you know that women are not allowed anything for themselves any more.
Sarah you are not annoying us. You are showing people the reality of what's happening.
Is this the world we want for our daughters ?

@Artichokeleaves

TW users had three separate choices of provision.

Male only
Trans only
Mixed sex women's.

Three.

Female service users get only the mixed sex option.

Females who cannot access any of those options? Get nothing.

There is no way to make this ok. To add a group for females who need it to access help in no way takes anything away or affects the TW service users . They continue to have their three provisions over female users' much lesser offer. They continue to have their full range of choice. To refuse to permit female people's needs to be met even when it in no way affects or harms their much better quality provision?

It's sheer dog in the manger. It's absolute indefensible intolerance. It's just sheer misogyny. These are women's services that now are inaccessible to many women.

Isn't it technically indirect discrimination on the basis of sex? When put down in this way it does make it easier to see.

Isn't it technically indirect discrimination on the basis of sex? When put down in this way it does make it easier to see.

Yep. I do have lawyers looking at this.

ii) I would expect the group leader to know and to have had confirmation from the hospital that performed the surgery. Or something equally rigourous

But how does this square with the mantra that what’s in someone’s pants is none of our business?

I'd have no problem sharing spaces with transmen aka biological women.

No problem at all.

Biological women account for a tiny minority (I believe approx 96%) of sexual or violent crimes.

Biological men (including transwomen) account for the vast majority of sex crimes.

That's the problem I have.

And you can tell a transwomen from a woman.

I think you will find @stompydinosaur that many NHS employees do know what a male and a female is, they just know they cant state it too publicly because of Stonewall. Similarly i think most people want single sex wards for privacy and dignity and safety.

I mean, what if we put these female untouchables in a shed somewhere a few miles away from the centre and they met only at three am in the morning so as not to upset anyone? What if we make them go barefoot and ring a bell chanting unclean as they meet?

Might these TW and their allies grant those female rape victims just a tiny fragment of access to help and support then? Pretty please?

No, they wouldn't.