Can’t let go of my childhood dream of getting into Oxford

[wannabeOxonian]

I had a childhood dream to attend Oxford University. The dream has been reignited again and I am looking for ways to gain a place at Oxford University.

My GCSE grades were quite good 12 A*/A but the issue is I started experiencing mental ill health problems during sixth form so my A-levels are mediocre plus I only have two A-levels because that’s all I could manage at the time.

I didn’t apply to Oxford during sixth form because I was worried my grades were mediocre so I ended up applying for any course I could find. I was accepted to a Russell Group university but I didn’t really like my time there and I didn’t like my degree very much so I scraped a 2:2 in the end because thankfully my final year was a 2:1 overall (65%) but my second year was horrific. This is now ten years ago.

I recently finished a masters degree at a good Russell Group university and had a merit, one percent off a distinction (69%). I am now looking to start a PhD in my field at a good university.

Wondering if it would be worth applying for Oxford and fulfilling my childhood dream at this point in my life?

Am I too old? Will my poor academic performance in sixth form and during my undergrad work against me, even with a PhD? I also haven’t published anything yet so I’m not exactly Oxford academic calibre right now. I feel insecure but I know I’ll regret it forever if I don’t fulfil my childhood ambition. Like I can imagine myself in my 80s regretting not going after what I wanted. Thoughts? Advice? Am I being silly?

For people wondering what I want to apply for, there’s a particular degree course that I’ve always wanted to study at Oxford. I’m not going to say what it is because I’ve shared too much here already in this post.

Your post is confusing. Are you wanting to do a PhD, go to Oxford, or do a PhD at Oxford?

UKRI funded? STEM? Do you have a project or supervisor in mind?

Why do you want Oxford particularly? Wanting to do a PhD suggests a genuine desire for original research and an academic career, but focussing on Oxford like it's some magical place suggests a lack of academic maturity that doesn't lend itself well to doctoral study.

Oh and if you are applying for a PhD no one will give a shit about your A levels. It'll be all about your research experience to date. I'll be brutally honest though, a 2:2 and Merit doesn't make you a particularly strong candidate if you're looking for funded projects, more middle of the road.

Why Oxford? What about it is so special? Are you sure you have a realistic picture of it?

A PhD isn't really about the location, you don't get the same student experience, it's solely about the supervisor and the project. Noone asks where your PhD is from, they ask what it was about.

Sorry one more! No one expects a PhD candidate to be published - that's what the PhD is for.

Honestly no one is going to care about your A levels at this point. I'm going to be honest though and say a 2:2 and merit isn't going to get you to the top of the pile.
Having said that topic is key for a phd, do you have a particular one in mind, have you approached a supervisor in your field at Oxford to discuss your chances? If not I'd advise doing that, they will be able to help you.

If it's any help Oxford do a lot of Summer schools etc. (To make money), maybe it would be easier to do one of those in order to get a few photos on the quad.

I think the entry requirement is being prepared to pay!!

It won’t be the student experience of your dreams though, doing a PhD. At all.

Why have you put Oxford on such a pedestal?

Are you the same poster who was fixated on achieving a First?

It certainly sounds as if you have avoided applying to Oxford in case you fail.

I've never got to the point of applying for a PhD place but I know I would have to be engrossed in my idea about the subject to stand a chance anywhere.

Who would be funding your PhD (DPhil)? Look at their criteria, and develop a plan to meet specific supervisors. They can give you a better idea of what is realistic.

My brother went to Cambridge for his Masters and then did his PhD at Harvard. He didn't have outstanding grades at school (he did the IB) and no one cared about that, but he had outstanding grades in his undergraduate studies (high Firsts of around 90% across the board). Cambridge cared about that much more than anything he did at school.

@BarkminsterBlue

Are you the same poster who was fixated on achieving a First?

Oh is it?

Sorry but there’s no way Oxford would accept a 2:2.

Yeah true story about the 2:2 I’m afraid, lots of universities won’t even accept that to do an MA.

Apply. But know the chances of being accepted for a PHD with a 2.2 and a merit and almost zero. I know a straight firsts student whose first degree was at Oxford who got rejected for a PhD.

You could look at an MSt programme, which is effectively an MA. Some of them are less competitive, especially the ones run by the Dept of continuing education. Depends what you are looking to study.

Oxford will definitely accept a 2:2 as that was my undergraduate qualification.

I did a few hobby courses at Oxford University Continuing Education and then a 1-year postgraduate MSt there, inspired by one of those courses.

You can apply, because then at least you have tried. Sounds like it's be unlikely you'd be successful, but you never know?fwiw the people I know who went to ox/cambo aren't any happier or more fulfilled than those that didn't. It isn't a magical answer to fulfilment.

Congrats on your merit! That's great.

To be honest, I think it really depends on the subject. Have you thought about doing an MPhil (many self-fund)? It's a fairly uncommon, two year degree. A lot of competition is removed at this level, because the fees are prohibitive if you don't get some pretty generous funding, so you're often evaluated according to the entry requirements rather than whether you can beat the top level of insanely accomplished applicants (as at undergrad). That won't be true for every subject, but it will for some (also, I hate to say it, not wanting to minimise anyone's achievements, but Oxford, like most other unis, is not averse to offering cash cows). But anyway, my point is that an MPhil will get you on the first rung of the ladder, get you into that pool of potential contacts, and you'd be in a stronger position to apply for a PhD (and the second, research year could replace the first PhD year). Plus there is often a lot of freedom during the MPhil to look around and see what you like, change course etc.

Oxford is a magical place and I can understand why you'd want to go there. You don't have to share, but is there a specific reason that you think it would suit your needs best, other than the employment prospects and general prestige? I'm not dismissing the attraction of those things, but for example, I did my postgrad there because I liked the programme and wanted to work with one particular person. And also because it would look good on my CV, not gonna lie. Why don't you get in touch with someone who's working in your field and have a chat about your research plans?

Both Oxford and Cambridge accept mature students, and there are specific colleges in which you can apply as an older applicant with non-standard qualifications, especially if you have had other life issues adversely affecting your original education.

To get a PhD place at either - especially funded - you’d normally need a high first. But you could instead apply to do another undergraduate degree (though you may find you can’t make use of the student loans / fees loans system if you have done an undergraduate degree already).

Sorry, change course as in change direction, not discipline!

@BarkminsterBlue I was thinking the same thing! Not just the content but the way the post is written

Having read your OP twice I’m also confused as to whether you want to apply to do a PhD at Oxford, or to compete your doctoral research somewhere else in order to be in a position to apply for an undergraduate degree at Oxford. Which suggests to me that you’re perhaps not entirely sure exactly what you want to achieve other than getting to Oxford.

I can tell you, with absolute certainty and current knowledge, that postgraduate life at Oxford is not the same thing as being there as an undergraduate. So if you’re hoping to reproduce what you might have imagined - you might be disappointed with PhD research.

Be that as it may, you ask if you’re too old. No one breathing is too old to undertake academic research. The likelihood of anyone receiving funding, as opposed to having to pay for themself, is dependent on a whole host of factors, including luck.

Could you clarify what you mean?

And also your subject. It really isn’t outing …

Both Oxford and Cambridge ask for 70% qualifying mark for their DPhil courses though, and the competition is fierce.

Another vote to try sumner schools, as interesting in their own right and which might just get you started in an area that interests you.

I'm confused about what you want to apply for. You say that it's a particular degree course, which means that it isn't a PhD. This would only be an option if you're entirely self-funded. Have you contacted them to see if your qualifications would get you in?

There is nothing in your post which indicates you have a love of research. To say the least it isn't enough that you wanna be an Oxonian. You say that you got a 2:2 because you didn't enjoy your time at university. Why do you want to spend another 3-4 years in academia? Do you actually know what a PhD involves? Your GCSEs are great but even undergrad is a different level type of study, let alone a PhD. It isn't just about being 'intelligent'. You need to be mentally tough, have real perseverance, be good at promoting yourself. You may be unsuited to this.

PhD study in general isn't a recipe for good mental health. You say that you've had problems in the past, well you can expect them to come back in spades if you go to Oxford. I know someone who quit because she couldn't cope with working all night. This was expected even at undergraduate level.

The most obvious question is why you are discussing this on mumsnet and not with your masters tutors. They know your academic work and they're the best people to advise you on PhD study. And if you want to go to Oxford, why aren't you talking to them?