Can’t let go of my childhood dream of getting into Oxford

[wannabeOxonian]

I had a childhood dream to attend Oxford University. The dream has been reignited again and I am looking for ways to gain a place at Oxford University.

My GCSE grades were quite good 12 A*/A but the issue is I started experiencing mental ill health problems during sixth form so my A-levels are mediocre plus I only have two A-levels because that’s all I could manage at the time.

I didn’t apply to Oxford during sixth form because I was worried my grades were mediocre so I ended up applying for any course I could find. I was accepted to a Russell Group university but I didn’t really like my time there and I didn’t like my degree very much so I scraped a 2:2 in the end because thankfully my final year was a 2:1 overall (65%) but my second year was horrific. This is now ten years ago.

I recently finished a masters degree at a good Russell Group university and had a merit, one percent off a distinction (69%). I am now looking to start a PhD in my field at a good university.

Wondering if it would be worth applying for Oxford and fulfilling my childhood dream at this point in my life?

Am I too old? Will my poor academic performance in sixth form and during my undergrad work against me, even with a PhD? I also haven’t published anything yet so I’m not exactly Oxford academic calibre right now. I feel insecure but I know I’ll regret it forever if I don’t fulfil my childhood ambition. Like I can imagine myself in my 80s regretting not going after what I wanted. Thoughts? Advice? Am I being silly?

For people wondering what I want to apply for, there’s a particular degree course that I’ve always wanted to study at Oxford. I’m not going to say what it is because I’ve shared too much here already in this post.

Seconding the massive difference between Oxford life as an undergraduate and doing a doctorate there (I did both and loved the former an awful lot more than the latter). Summer schools or an MSt might be more suitable at least at first. Good luck!

Of course you aren't too old.

It's generally easier to get in to do a Phd than an undergrad degree. You might have to explain that you suffered ill health re A levels and 2.2, but you've got a high 2.1 masters (correct?) so I'd think it would be fine. Contact them and find out, they have a mature students assoc, and I think Manchester college (?) is focused on older students.

So you did a degree at a Russell Group university and got a 2.2. Then you did a masters degree at a Russell Group university and just fell short of a distinction. And now you want to pursue a PhD?

I think you need to get out of education and actually start your life and career which might give you more fulfilment than being continuously disappointed with your academic achievements - which you clearly are, as keep trying to better, and prove mediocre performance was a fluke and not really representative of how great you are by getting a 'higher' class of degree.

I'll be honest. A 2.2 and Merit will not make you competitive. Unless you've worked in industry or with another group on a related discipline, and got a paper out .... there are going to be insanely competitive applicants. You seem to care more about the university being Oxford than the actual PhD itself which is the wrong attitude. PhDs are a lot of effort and a long commitment. Being able to tell people you 'go to Oxford' wont motivate you for more than a few months and is the wrong reason to do a PhD there.

Is it the deadline for applications to Oxford 7th January?

*isn't

You have allowed pipe dreams to spoil your enjoyment of your actual, real life.
You need to find some new dreams.
Everyone has things that they wished they could have done. But they didn’t. For multiple different reasons.
I would suspect that this ‘dream’ is causing you to miss out on some very real opportunities.
Going to Oxford now would be a step back and unlikely to be the experience you hoped it would be.

YABCU
Cambridge is better🤓

@BarkminsterBlue

Are you the same poster who was fixated on achieving a First?

I stayed to ask the same question or check if anyone else has.

Sounds so similar in the way both OP seem fixated on both issues.

If you’ve been dwelling on this for more than a decade, then I suggest you just apply, so at least you can know that you tried. See what happens. Introduce some reality into the dream.

My worry for you is that you still have a childish romanticised view of Oxford. I don’t know about PhD work, but in general, Oxbridge colleges are a high stress low support fast paced environment and I would never recommend Oxbridge to anyone who didn’t have extremely strong mental health. (I went and I did not enjoy it.)

I think just go for it and apply, you've got nothing to lose.

I dreamed about studying at a certain university as a teenager. I didn't apply to do a degree there because I knew the competition would be very tough and thought I wasn't good enough. Years later I ended up doing an MA there. I think it helped that I picked a course that was fairly new and wasn't as popular as some of the more well-established ones.

I wouldnt take a 2:2 and merit student on for a PhD (Russell group uni) unless they had something afterwards that demonstrated they had excellent critical thinking and writing skills. They would also need something extra like fantastic access to a niche dataset.

I think you might be better spending some time working out what going to Oxford represents to you, because this doesn't sound like it is really about the joy of study. I wonder if you feel it will be validating, or gain the esteem of others? I worry the experience might disappoint you.

Apply to Oxford Brookes. Tell everyone you're at Oxford - loads of people do that

@Hunderland I dated a few blokes who did that!

‘I went to Oxford’ they’d say. If they felt the need to boast about it and get it out there early, they were either a braying twat or they meant Brooks. Or sometimes both.

What appealed to you about Oxford as a child?

I loved the idea of the history of Oxford/Cambridge, the traditions, that so much science or other discoveries had been made there, intense discussions with experts in old studies, staying up late talking about important things with other students, the beautiful buildings and scenery, the idea that it was college based and people lived in, and it would feel a bit more like the boarding school I wanted to go to but never did - full of close friends, getting together in each other rooms, the camaraderie, etc.

But I went as a post-grad. And it wasn't like what I expected at all.

Well no, maybe some of it was. Some of the traditions, and the beautiful buildings. But much of the time, I envied the undergraduates for what their experience was. I felt older (even at 23!). I wasn't part of the close-knit groups. I joined music groups and societies, but I was a bit of an outsider. I wasn't part of a 'Year' group at college. I didn't ever live in the college grounds.

I did enjoy lots of it. I made friends. I liked being part of a college, as that was at least better than being out on my own in a random big city trying to work on a PhD in isolation. I did like the history and feeling part of a great tradition. I went to talks by experts. But it was still very very different doing a post-grad. It's more isolating, you're an adult in a different way, you're not part of the main mass of college that it can seem like the college cares about, you are more connected to your department than your college. It's a hell of a lot of work, very self-driven, no classes, no assignments, nothing but a giant thesis by the end of it.

If what you really want to do is the research, and you can get a supervisor there who is a good fit, then it could be great. But still very different to what you might be imagining.

People do ask where your PhD is from, so it's not true that the location has nothing to do with it, especially if you don't go on in academia. If you do, then who your supervisor is, and what research you do, is more important.

A 2:2 isn't the end of possibilities, but it's not great. You'd have to show that you'd be able to come up with and carry out a decent project for a PhD proposal, and have to convince a supervisor to invest their time in you doing that. And then you'd have to get money to do it - the 2:2 would be more problematic there, as it's so so so hard to get funding already.

So I think you need to really think about what you want from the experience, and if there are other ways to get what you are looking for, or you might still end up envious and regretful throughout your time there.

You are definitely not too old. DH was in his sixties when he began his PhD. This was Cambridge though I imagine standards are similar to Oxford.

No-one will care about your A-levels, but they might care about your degree results. You won't be expected to have published anything before doing a phd. Finally, what do you mean there is a particular degree course you want to do? You won't be doing a degree. You need to have a planned research project and a potential supervisor. Look at the research groups in your field and see if your interests fit with one of them. Then contact potential supervisors. If you are serious about doing a phd, you need to start seriously working towards an application.

OP your post baffles me. You do know the difference between desire and dedication don't you? Desire is: I want a pony! Mummy can I have a pny. I have had one on my Christmas list for three years. Dedication is: I want a pony. I work for free after school at the liveries so I can get to ride the ponies and teach there on saturdays to save up for one.
You are all desire not dedication. Why have you not published anything yet? My undergrad son at oxford has already had a paper accepted by an academic journal in his first year. He wrote it in his spare time over the summer while holding down a job as a barista and playing sport at national level. He did it because he is passionate about his subject and reads way outside his curriculum, always has.

You have to show dedication to academia or to academic excellence. A 2.2 and a merit don't really do that. You don't get into Oxford just by really wanting it. You can go there for day trips or sign up for a paid summer school which aren't selective, if you want the live-in experience. But if you want to be at one of the top unis in the world, show them. Write half a dozen spectacular papers and submit them to essay prizes and respected journals.

What matters for a Ph.D. is what it's on, and who your supervisor is, not (mainly) where it is. Obviously you should try to do it in a place that you will like to live in, if possible; but the fact that something is done in Oxford doesn't make it intrinsically better, more enjoyable, or more career-enhancing than anywhere else. Even at undergraduate level, the romantic myths are out-of-date if they ever did have much truth.

A 2.2 is a disadvantage nowadays, but if your performance was affected by mental (or other) health problems, a good supervisor and department should take that into account. I wouldn't just assume that it isn't possible.

Your best bet for doing a Ph.D without having to fund yourself may be to take up a research assistantship with a supervisor who has a grant that includes people combining a Ph.D, with a research assistant position. How available such posts are will depend a lot on the subject.

Admissions to PhDs usually look for academic excellence in your undergraduate. You could always apply, worth a shot, but I wouldn't hold out much hope sadly.

The op seems to have already abandoned the thread but I’d say yes, with that academic record Oxford is probably out of reach.

Just do an MSt. Less competition than DPhils. But you’d need to state why on earth you want to do the course and “I had a dream when I was 12” is decidedly inadequate for someone over 30.

If you don't apply, you'll never know if it would actually happen or not.

I actually think you might be happier not applying, and forever blaming never attending Oxford on your poor mental health as a teenager, rather than anything else.

I wish you luck. I also think you've put the university on too high a pedestal, and think you should focus on living your best life with a degree form a Russel Group Uni.

Genuine question op but what is so special about Oxford?