Aibu to be horrified at the thought of mandatory vaccinations

[TracyLords]

I’m not anti vax. I’ve had my jabs and will get booster this week.

There have been countries in the EU insisting on mandatory vaccination: this concerns me: surely it is up to the individual to decide to get vaccinated (or otherwise)

I agree it is very scary. If you allow the state to mandate one medical procedure it opens the door for them to mandate others

This. I'm vaccinated but 100% support the right of others to choose not to be.

I consider a vaccination doesn’t just protect the person vaccinated, it helps to protect the whole community and we have a responsibility as humans to protect others as well as ourselves

oh that old virtue signalling chestnut again. Nope - I got vaccinated to protect me. I expect other people to get vaccinated to protect them. You can get the S word out again - oh isn't she selfish, she only got vaccinated for her own benefit. Yep.

The issue is not people getting it but the affects of getting it, hospitalizations being the main one. Vaccines stop most of these so the hospitals themselves don't become overwhelmed
Where I am the ICU is almost exclusively made up of the unvaccinated

Measles which was previously the most contagious disease known to man would require 1 in 18 not to be vaccinated for herd immunity. Covid is infinity more contagious than that so simply everyone who can be vaccinated , has to be.

[quote NollaigNollaig]@SheikhMaraca so just in case something may or may not happen in the future, your preference is that we don’t get our lives back and instead keep foundering away in this mess.

It doesn’t make sense. Look up about the plague. Entire towns shut themselves off no one allowed in or out. People did what they had to do to survive.[/quote]
These comparisons to the plague are ridiculous. A pandemic that happened hundreds of years ago is nowhere near the same as one in this modern day world with much advanced healthcare.

@Sparklybanana - whilst it may be reducing avoidable deaths now, we don't know what the long term effects may be, ie how will this affect our children and our children's children? We should err on the side of caution, and I say that as someone who decided to be vaccinated.

Everyone should critically question whether the vaccine is right for them. Mandating it, is just as bad as the anti-vaxxers who just point blank say no.

Leaving the choice to the individual is probably the most pragmatic course of action.

Yes @Waxonwaxoff0 you are right. Modern medicine means we can now have mandatory vaccination to get out of this mess. Oh wait but no one wants that- yet can’t propose any other solution to end this.

Everyone should critically question whether the vaccine is right for them.

Well, I think that's assuming a lot of expertise that many people don't have. One of the big problems with getting people to accept the vaccination voluntarily is the idea that any eejit on the street is placed to evaluate medical studies. It leaves them completely vulnerable to utter charlatans and motivated loonbags.

At some point, we do have to trust that other people have expertise that we don't and respect it.

@PleasantBirthday

It's a tragic state of affairs that we have come to this.

Indeed, with decades of free education for all.

Please just stop it. The smug superiority complex of some posters is really starting to get on my nerves! And when fervent pro-vaxxers are comparing Covid to the plague which had a 50 - 100 % death rate (depending on the type) and killed 30 - 60% of the people in Europe then you have to quesion who the uneducated ones are.

@NollaigNollaig

I don’t get this being horrified. We’re in a middle of a once in a lifetime pandemic. The world has been a total shit show for the past two years and we’re still going round in circles.

It’s a fact that vaccines massively reduce hospitalisation. Would you prefer mandatory vaccines or never returning to life as we know it?

We’re not in a normal situation here. What do you think the world should be doing to try stop this? Keep us all locked down? Overwhelm hospitals and sod who dies? There are no good options. For me taking a safe vaccine is the best option if it gets us back to normal.

This worries me so much. My teenager has horrific needle phobia. She has attempted to get her covid vaccination on three occasions so far and psychologically hasn’t been able to go through with it, even with a specialist support with her. We’re trying again weekly as she really wants it but just…can’t. Each time she has been sent away as her response makes it too dangerous for them to proceed.

I am worried about what the future is looking like for her - she already accepts that we can’t even consider a holiday next year until she has her vaccines but if it comes to mandatory vaccination will they want to hold her down?

I don’t think this issue has been addressed nearly enough.

Smallpox vaccination was made compulsory in the UK in the 19th century. We now don't have smallpox. It didn't lead to them making any other procedures mandatory, so it isn't necessarily a slippery slope. Many other countries don't offer school places to unvaccinated children (MMR, DTP etc).

Please just stop it. The smug superiority complex of some posters is really starting to get on my nerves!

I'm genuinely not too worried about whether it gets on your nerves to say that people are taking nonsense arguments (like the 5g/depopulation stuff) and using it to reject vaccination. People should be able to better evaluate evidence after at least a decade of compulsory education than that.

Well, I think that's assuming a lot of expertise that many people don't have. One of the big problems with getting people to accept the vaccination voluntarily is the idea that any eejit on the street is placed to evaluate medical studies.

At some point, we do have to trust that other people have expertise that we don't and respect it

The right to bodily autonomy shouldn't be signed over to experts. They're not an homogenous group with one view. Who chooses which expert gets to decide?

Health decisions are best left to the individual who has to live with the consequences.

Who chooses which expert gets to decide?

Well, normally the expert without a tinfoil hat who thinks that Bill Gates is running 5g out of you.

Vaccine passports? Yep I’m fine with that. I don’t want to sit next to someone in the pub who has more chance of infecting me than someone who is vaccinated. That’s my right to be safe.

Fining people who don’t get vaccines? Nope. Making them mandatory? No.

(Making them mandatory for healthcare workers, I’m fine with that.)

Well, normally the expert without a tinfoil hat who thinks that Bill Gates is running 5g out of you

Zing, glad you solved that.

I'm for the NHS' plan to sack anyone unvaccinated in patient-facing roles, I'm for covid passes to get into clubs, pubs, and non-essential events but mandatory vaccinations are too far. Lots of people aren't anti-vax but are choosing to wait a little longer to see long-term effects of vaccines and efficacy or they're waiting to get through pregnancy/ttc/health issues before having it. I think anti-vaxxers are stupid but still entitled to their opinions and choices.

Considering England (not sure about all of UK) has an excellent rate of vaccinated people, surely those left by choice or otherwise are protected by the vaccinated? That was the point all along I though

The trouble is, it’s the people who know the least that seem to shout the loudest. Irony is it stems from fear. Dunning Kruger effect. Most people cannot critically evaluate evidence because that is a taught skill in later education, not high school. Most people who think they know it all and believe all the conspiracy nonsense are not educated past high school. I stress most not all.

The things I’ve seen posted on Facebook used as ‘’evidence’’ against vaccination is frankly laughable that any adult could believe such tripe.

@PleasantBirthday

Please just stop it. The smug superiority complex of some posters is really starting to get on my nerves!

I'm genuinely not too worried about whether it gets on your nerves to say that people are taking nonsense arguments (like the 5g/depopulation stuff) and using it to reject vaccination. People should be able to better evaluate evidence after at least a decade of compulsory education than that.

And you honestly believe that most people who are concerned about the vaccine believe the 5g/depopulation stuff?! The only people I tend to hear banging on about it are pro vaxxers who are trying to discredit anyone with a different opinion to them. If you open up your mind a bit then you will find that there's an awful lot of vaccine hesistant people who have genuine concerns about the lack of long-term safety data or have needle phobias that make life extremely difficult for them.

If they make it mandatory, there will be riots from the anti vax groups/government groups.

If people don’t want to be jabbed, I fully respect that decision 👍

Down side is that if you go abroad, you won’t be allowed on an aircraft or into the country that you were planning to go to as you won’t be able to prove you have been jabbed

That is my educated guess of what will happen in future but more than happy to be corrected 👍

@Clumsyvolcano

The trouble is, it’s the people who know the least that seem to shout the loudest. Irony is it stems from fear. Dunning Kruger effect. Most people cannot critically evaluate evidence because that is a taught skill in later education, not high school. Most people who think they know it all and believe all the conspiracy nonsense are not educated past high school. I stress most not all.

The things I’ve seen posted on Facebook used as ‘’evidence’’ against vaccination is frankly laughable that any adult could believe such tripe.

Yes, but it doesn't mean those people should be forced to be vaccinated against their will.

Waxonwaxoff0 Well yes, these days we don't just notice the next village are dropping dead and react when it's too late. We can better plan and track and act early to prevent as many deaths and illnesses as possible.

@PleasantBirthday

Everyone should critically question whether the vaccine is right for them.

Well, I think that's assuming a lot of expertise that many people don't have. One of the big problems with getting people to accept the vaccination voluntarily is the idea that any eejit on the street is placed to evaluate medical studies. It leaves them completely vulnerable to utter charlatans and motivated loonbags.

At some point, we do have to trust that other people have expertise that we don't and respect it.

It takes nothing to question the source of the information you're reading/watching/listening to.

Even the most fervent non-believer can surely work out that the info Holly the Hairdresser or Gary the Greengrocer has is hardly sound scientific advice? Same with the media.....ask yourself why are they telling me this/framing it in this way, what is their agenda?

The issue is people don't want to have to think for themself, so take the easiest option and align themselves with the option/groups/spokespeople whose opinion most closely matches theirs. People become entrenched in their position and stop listening to other viewpoints and it becomes a slanging match between the two poles.

It's a pity, because there needs to be a middle ground and people need to be able to put across their points/fears/concerns without name calling or accusations of stupidity.

@Waxonwaxoff0 I didn’t say they should. My point was, the education system needs to change. A lot of people don’t even pick up a book once they have left compulsory education so how are they expected to evaluate medical jargon. These things are very important.

@RuggerHug

Waxonwaxoff0 Well yes, these days we don't just notice the next village are dropping dead and react when it's too late. We can better plan and track and act early to prevent as many deaths and illnesses as possible.

Yes, exactly. There was no other choice in those days, there was no universal healthcare so if you got the plague you were on your own to try and survive. That's why there was such a severe reaction.