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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be fed up with the lazy graduates I work with....

236 replies

H0bnob · 30/11/2021 11:31

And I say this as an early 20s recent graduate myself! So many young people both in my immediate team and within my department seem to have such a shocking attitude to work I'm finding it really grating. Most of these people have just finished there degree/masters and have never had to work before now and the attitude it just shocking!

To add to this, everyone seems to have anxiety and depression to some degree. I am absolutely NOT dismissing mental health issues and having lived with several i know how debilitating they can be....but to use it as an excuse to get out of everything is just taking the piss....being too lazy to do your job is not the same thing as being depressed, grow up for Christ's sake and take some responsibility.

One of my colleagues (same age as me) has had almost 20 sick days in the last 6 months for mental health...and yet goes out drinking and taking drugs every weekend without failure. When said colleague is in they also do nothing but sit on their phone and complain about being bored and tired. My managers seem reluctant to do anything too with the worry of accidental discrimination and so the rest of us are forced to continuously pick up the slack. Its really doing my head in now, am I being hugely intolerant?? Fully prepared to be told I I as obviously you never know what's going on behind the scenes but christ this is relentless! Apologies this has turned into a proper rant im just so frustrated by society at the minute.

OP posts:
Crinkle77 · 30/11/2021 17:45

YABU. I work in a university and have worked with/employed lots of students, the majority of which have been fab.

H0bnob · 30/11/2021 17:46

@Lotusmonster

I’m sorry but the small matter of a global pandemic meaning mainly online teaching, self isolation and no graduation ceremonies plus the same debts plus lecturer strikes has probably left its mark on the mental health of cohorts x 24 months!!! Are you really surprised at that as well as the pitiful access to MH referral services across the UK. Sorry OP I find your ‘snap out of it’ mentality a bit shit.
I understand the situation is rubbish...and people experience and cope with things differently...but I am a 2020 graduate myself! I dont feel the need to blame online teaching, instability and a shocking job market as an excuse to be lazy and entitled, so why should they??
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RockinHorseShit · 30/11/2021 17:48

I agree this is a leadership issue

Yes you are dismissing MH issues, but that is understandable when the resulting extra work load is no doubt affecting your own MH.

Your managers need to step up & at very least sort out extra cover

H0bnob · 30/11/2021 17:49

@vickyp0llard

Say you lack focus at work (because it's mind numbingly fucking boring and your boss doesn't appreciate you) and you Google strategies to help you manage your lack of productivity - 99% guarantee Google will tell you you've got ADHD.

Haha, this is exactly my situation! I hate my job and always have done, in hindsight it wasn't a great career choice because it's quite dull and not very sociable. Whenever I ask people for alternate career ideas and outline the issues (lack of motivation, WFH consists mainly of watching YouTube and going on Reddit), I always get told it must be ADHD. I'm planning to get tested for it anyway, but surely everyone who finds their office job dull and slacks off when they get the chance can't all have ADHD?

Some jobs are just boring and some people put in the minimum effort because they don't want to work - but they have to in order to pay their bills and fund their life! I fully put my hands up to being one of those slackers, but I don't blame it on MH problems or demand a top salary. I accept there won't be any promotions heading my way! For those of us who just don't enjoy working.....what do you actually suggest we do? I can't conjure up motivation out of nowhere, I can't afford to retrain, I can't quit work or just be a benefits cheat, too late to find a rich husband, can't really top myself.....so my current solution is to clock in but just do as little as I can get away with.

I dont have any issue with this mindset...hating your job is soul destroying! But only if its just you you're affecting. We have a shared workload so that surely doesn't fly?
OP posts:
ColinTheKoala · 30/11/2021 17:49

I think the post about shirkers in the law is quite surprising. In my experience such people are managed out very quickly. The trainees in my firm are very bright, work very hard and do really well.

Anyway when I was a bright young thing, we tended to think that a lot of the oldies were work-shy shirkers coasting towards retirement. Horses for courses.

KatherineJaneway · 30/11/2021 17:54

I worked with graduates and most were absolutely fine but some were just so out of touch with real life. It's like no one had prepared them for the world of work.

One guy didn't turn up at an assessment centre and 3 months later called to ask if he could attend a new date. I was like no, recruitment has now finished. One candidate wrote to us and complained that she had a degree in the industry she was applying to so couldn't understand why she didn't get the job. According to her, she should have been successful at our graduate scheme just because she had the right degree, nothing else mattered. One of the best ones was where the mum wrote about her daughters failure to secure a role on our graduate scheme. I wrote back with constructive feedback on her application but did point out that if a candidate has her mum write a letter on her behalf to find out why she did not get a place, it shows we made the right decision as she would not be suitable for the role if she cannot ask for feedback.

BlushingBrightly · 30/11/2021 17:55

@H0bnob

Unclench my dear one is coming across as a bit of a patronising old cow! This post is not about grammar, it's about my useless colleagues. I have a very solid grasp of the English language...I just dont feel the need to be too pedantic about it on an anonymous forum, far better things to worry about!
I think your thread makes some good points, but you're not helping your case by painting anyone you disagree with as a lazy young person or a patronising old person. Is it only you who gets everything just right, Goldilocks? You could have just said 'sorry, my mistake' and demonstrated how mature you really are.
H0bnob · 30/11/2021 17:58

@BlushingBrightly

I dont have an issue with people disagreeing. I have an issue with people attacking me for something that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread in order to make me look bad

OP posts:
Mysterylovingboy · 30/11/2021 17:59

We (public sector) must get lucky then as we've had generally fantastic graduates.

I don't agree that people with mental health problems and back problems shouldn't be out and about socialising. I suffered in the past from PTSD after a traumatic event and the psychiatrist treating me was absolutely insistent that it was important to find pleasures (I was suicidal) and things were made much worse for me at work because I'd be spotted in a park feeding the ducks, or in a cafe and so presumed 'fit for work'. I'd actually gone there immediately after therapy on direct instruction to do something nice after awful sessions reliving my trauma.

As a result of the same traumatic event I also have a serious back issue. Again my physio is in agreement that given this is a lifelong complaint I mustn't live only for work, expending all my energy at work and have no decent home or social life, which is what I have a tendency to do. So yes, I go out and see friends when I have some energy, and I still do some exercise in a very carefully mitigated way, and with the help of 5 different forms of pain relief, which again, my colleagues aren't aware of.

So please, show more empathy for people who are genuinely suffering. That said I'm considered a high performer at work, so I'm probably not one of the people you're talking about (though a casual observer might think I am).

Kite22 · 30/11/2021 18:00

I know I sound like I’m 100 years old but honestly the younger generation have such a sense of entitlement and arrogance. Yes there are challenges in life and some people have genuine MH problems but jeez some people just can’t be bothered and take the absolute piss.

Once again - massive generalisation.
This is not my experience AT ALL.
I am 100% sure there are some people like this in their 20s, just as there are in 30s, 40s, 50s, 60, 70s etc but equally there are thousands upon thousands of hardworking people too.
Stop lumping a whole generation together.

WorraLiberty · 30/11/2021 18:02

[quote H0bnob]@BlushingBrightly

I dont have an issue with people disagreeing. I have an issue with people attacking me for something that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread in order to make me look bad[/quote]
Anyone who tries to score cheap points by picking up on another poster's spelling/grammar, only makes themselves look bad.

As for saying "sorry, my mistake", errrr no. You don't need to apologise to anyone.

This is a chat forum, not an examination.

Larryyourwaiter · 30/11/2021 18:04

I worked with a young man who was regularly off ‘depressed’ on a Monday and sometimes Tuesday.
He would go out Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights BIG TIME. He would then spend all day on Sunday in bed and eating takeaways ‘depressed’. He would perk up on a Wednesday and back going out on Thursday.
10 years on he has grown out of it though.

Eleganz · 30/11/2021 18:04

My experience is that you can get these types in many places but in the public sector but line managers are given far less support, training and autonomy and paid much less than in the private sector - no surprise they are less effective really.

I suffer from GAD, fully diagnosed and managed with a combination of CBT and, at times, medication. I am supportive of colleagues and my staff who are struggling with their mental health of course, but there are always chancers and people who seem not to get that being anxious is not the same has "having anxiety". Being anxious is one of many totally normal human emotions that we all experience, this is quite different from the crippling experience of being in the middle of a genuine panic attack or highly destructive behaviour brought on by extreme anxiety.

MintyGreenDream · 30/11/2021 18:05

@Squashpocket I agree

Happyhappyday · 30/11/2021 18:08

I was 23 and managing 70 staff in a busy London shop & one of the department manager I supervised was messing around, showing up late constantly, hungover, dramatic affairs with her staff etc. I went to my boss for advice on how to deal with her and he said something like “she’s only 25, so young etc” and I remember looking at him and saying I’m only bloody 23 and I have my shit together!!! I got so annoyed at “being young” as excuse for being a lazy sod. I wasn’t that lazy when I was 15!

lightisnotwhite · 30/11/2021 18:08

@Lotusmonster

I’m sorry but the small matter of a global pandemic meaning mainly online teaching, self isolation and no graduation ceremonies plus the same debts plus lecturer strikes has probably left its mark on the mental health of cohorts x 24 months!!! Are you really surprised at that as well as the pitiful access to MH referral services across the UK. Sorry OP I find your ‘snap out of it’ mentality a bit shit.
The pandemic had as many ups as downs though especially for the kids. Zero exam stress. Does anyway care what the kids got this year or last? Joggers and crap hair were acceptable. Teens didn’t have to worry about getting jumped in the park or who they were going out with Saturday. They could be rebels by just being out rather than smashing a bus stop. The biggest stress was being with their parents.
Feedingthebirds1 · 30/11/2021 18:11

As a recently retired uni lecturer, can I offer another perspective?

Universities used to be autonomous. They got on and did their own thing. Now they are inspected regularly and answerable to a number of different bodies for their performance. Two criteria on which they are always judged are retention (how many students who enrolled are still there at the end of the course) and achievement (how many students leave with the degree they signed up for). Poor retention and achievement threatens their funding, even their existence. That puts pressure on the universities to avoid any student either leaving or failing, and they do anything to avoid that. So if a student doesn't submit their work on the deadline, they are given a revised study plan with a new deadline...then another...and another. If they don't attend lectures, the lecturer has to give them the time to catch up. A colleague of mine in a different department was told that if any of his students failed his module he would be held responsible.

After the introduction of league tables for schools, and the pressure schools therefore put on their pupils, university used to be the last area of education where there was a consequence for doing no work. Not any more. The students are not allowed to fail. And they are absolved of any responsibility for actually getting their degree.

Of course, this isn't all students. Many are still hard working and want to succeed on their own merits and by their own efforts. And they get very pissed off by the students who are forever having allowances made for them when there are no issues, they are simply lazy and entitled.

The bodies to which the universities are accountable were introduced after tuition fees were brought in, and I fully get that it is necessary to ensure that the students who are paying a heavy price for their degrees deserve to have the quality of their education assured. But there have been unintended consequences which some students have been all too willing to exploit, who believe that paying for it entitles them to a degree without any further input from them, and who the system rewards. And it has undoubtedly led to a number of graduates believing that the world owes them a living.

Stripyhoglets1 · 30/11/2021 18:13

I wish I knew which part of the public sector is an easy life cos its not the bit I'm in! And I'm not frontline either.
Mind you it does take ages to get rid of people if they are not able to do the job - it is possible though as there's only a need to make "reasonable adjustments" and if your illness genuinely means you can't do the job eventually you do have to leave. And some people are lazy - but the majority work extremely hard and it's noticed and appreciated.
I've not particularly noticed an issue with younger staff - but we have had people join us from the private sector who've quickly gone back to the private sector as its so demanding, busy and low paid. They think the lower pay means it will be less demanding but it really isn't.

Kite22 · 30/11/2021 18:20

There seems to be an idea amongst lots of people (not just the young) that "normal" people sail through life without any problems and rarely, if ever, find any tasks stressful or anxiety-inducing. Therefore if they are not like this, and find situations like speaking to new people, talking over the phone, making appointments or driving to new places hard, they must have "anxiety" and shouldn't have to do those things.

Whereas in real life most people have different things they find stressful or worrying the first few times they do them, or even always, but have learnt that the best way to get over it is to just do it. And then do it again. And then again. And by the fifth or 20th time you've built up techniques and resilience to be able to do the difficult task, even if you never feel entirely comfortable.

There's a difference between feeling anxious about something (completely normal) and having anxiety but they seem to be conflated too often. Even if you are diagnosed with anxiety, there are so many coping mechanisms out there the aim should always be to manage it as much as possible rather than just "opting out" - as that then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Excellent post

Also another excellent point from @Feedingthebirds1

I too have experience of this at 16-18 level whre 2 people clearly weren't suitable, and didn't give a monkeys, but were "not allowed" to be failed. What's the point ?

Marchingredsoldiers · 30/11/2021 18:20

Oh my god! Am i the only who recognises myself from 20 years ago Blush. In my defence i was in the wrong job and after a while i got into the right profession. (I work my arse now, so have made up for it!) I am cringing when I consider my work ethic in my twenties and reading this thread...

Octavia174 · 30/11/2021 18:21

I ve worked in both public and private sector and poor management and laziness exist in both.

A new starter taking 20 days off, over a number of separate times, in 6months, would trigger a meeting to discus, followed by further action, this is pretty common in the public & private sectors now, new starters aren't on the sort of contracts of the past.

I think you don't like young people do you?

H0bnob · 30/11/2021 18:22

@Octavia174

I ve worked in both public and private sector and poor management and laziness exist in both.

A new starter taking 20 days off, over a number of separate times, in 6months, would trigger a meeting to discus, followed by further action, this is pretty common in the public & private sectors now, new starters aren't on the sort of contracts of the past.

I think you don't like young people do you?

I'm 23!!! I am a young person 😂
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icelolly12 · 30/11/2021 18:23

Ime it's mainly male graduates like this... females know they have to work harder to get ahead and have done so at school, college, uni etc.

Ilady · 30/11/2021 18:25

I worked in a number of places and in a few different different industries. I agree about the mollycoddled youngsters and how much reality hits them in the world of work. I have seen places where grads were pushed up in work to low or mid management roles and they could not organise a piss up in a brewery. They looked good on paper and could talk the talk. Meanwhile other people in their team were trying to tell them their bright idea was not a runner, were left sorting their mess and then dealing with a lack of staff because people had enough of working their and moved on.

It now like that some younger people never have the word no said to them or are made to help out at home. They are let sit at home during the weekends/school holidays when some of their friends have part time jobs. Then they go into the world of work and can't accept they will be told off and seem to think they don't have to start at the bottom or do the less nice part of their job.
I know teenagers who have gotten work experience that helped them get PT jobs. The same teenagers are willing to listen to people explain what they are doing wrong or what they need to improve in work.

People are now more aware of Mh issues and I think that some times the lazy, work shy and I am a graduate crowd can say I have X or y to make life as easy as possible in work. If you have Mh issues you won't feel like going out at the weekend drinking ect. It unfair on the people who have Mh issues that they are working on to improve.

Then some managers just look at a CV and take on a graduate with none or very little experience and expect that they will know how to do everything on day one. For some jobs a bit of work and life experience is far better than a degree. I know some clever people who can be total trouble in the work place for either the company or its staff. Then it takes ages to manage them out because a company does not want an unfair dismissal case because of them.

icelolly12 · 30/11/2021 18:26

Every generation X thinks they are going to be either a social media star or the next Steve Jobs/Elon Musk. Reality hits hard...