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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to loathe the people here?

735 replies

OnenessWithAllStrife · 30/11/2021 10:06

Some people say that feeling a negative emotion or having unpleasant feelings about something shouldn't define you, that you should let the thoughts flow and then let them go. OK. I hope this to be true :(

But i have lived somewhere for the past 6 years that has brought me to conclusions and created feelings in me that I am not proud of. For the first time in my life I have actually come to loathe people and feel a sense of terror about being stuck with them. This is not particularly politically 'correct' when put into words, unfortunately, but I can't think of any other way to express it.

I moved to a town6 yrs ago in which I don't have much in common with the residents. It isn't unusual, just an ordinary large town which at one time contained more diversity, but in recent years has become very insular and homogenous. Everyone is angry, anti social, or depressed. If you don't openly discuss some sort of prejudice (racism, sexism, anti-intellectualism) you're 'soft in the head' or a 'bloody weirdo'.
Wherever I go here, in any direction, you will either see kids or drunk adults destroying property, or else screaming at each other in the street. There are a few select areas that are less challenging and rough, but the vibe is somehow the same.

Education or reading is a mugs game, football is the only passion, kids are yelled at for merely existing. Any conversation with a seemingly friendly stranger results in them wishing all the foreigners to go home. There is a general air of brutality to everything, a leathery, hard resistance to any kind of sensitivity whatsoever. Art, creativity and self reflection are suspicious, and the only permissible clothing is black or sport branded. Every damned street is choked with the fumes of endlessly revved up vehicles with ear splitting exhaust modifications. The environment is filthy, full of dog shit and bordering on dereliction.

I would once have considered all of this a problem of poverty, but it isn't quite that easy to determine, having witnessed it. There is no seeming variation in behaviour across income brackets here, it looks to be more cultural than income related, although the attitude towards learning, etc will obviously have the effect of creating more poverty regardless. It is like a self perpetuating cesspit of no hope and hard hearts. I thought i was a leftie, a socialist, but when I leave here I will be fucking marked by this and hope to never exist within it ever again.

We moved here for DP's work and are set to leave this coming year. I also appreciate that the residents and I have experienced very different upbringings and we do not share much in common, but even so, I think that you have to endure this to really, really see it, to come to fear it. It is easy to sit in a comfy armchair miles from it and 'defend' this stuff because you haven't truly sampled the existential sickness of it on your own doorstep.
I wish i didn't feel it, but it is difficult to lie to oneself, and the fear has probably evolved from having felt 'stuck' in it for so long. I wfh and DP does part time (some here regard us as 'pretentious' for this and have suggested we ought to do some 'real' work). It all feels very dated and odd, to be surrounded by values that repulse me and contain so little diversity. I mean, this is the type of place where you'll get side-eyed for cooking from scratch or having the audacity to flavour a dish with pesto.

Does this mean I loathe them? I don't know. I imagine I will chill with it when we have moved, as it all becomes a distant memory, but it has certainly left a mark. It feels wrong to state these feelings and observations, but I bet I am not the only one who has thought them....

OP posts:
ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 21:36

[quote shinynewapple21]@ThousandsOfTulips but people
Who are manipulated to vote a particular way because they can see no better way forward in their current circumstances are victims in a way .

[/quote]
Shhhh we're not allowed to say that. They hollered "WE KNEW WHAT WE WERE VOTING FOR, DON'T PATRONISE US!"

So we'll hold them to that.

buntybanana · 30/11/2021 21:37

ThousandsOfTulips but people
Who are manipulated to vote a particular way because they can see no better way forward in their current circumstances are victims in a way

@shinynewapple21 This is the big question though. Were they victims of government manipulation (which absolutely did exist) or was it marginalised people putting two fingers up to the political elite, which ultimately ended up in them being worse off than before. Probably a mixture of both. Xenophobia and racism were definitely among their reasons to vote for Brexit. Yes they're is angry and yes they have a right to be - but now Brexit and the coming fallout is a consequence we'll ALL have to live with now.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 21:37

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

Victims don't have a choice about what happens. What an offensive post

What makes you think FPTP gives anyone a valid choice?

As a pp said, the North is angry. I think it has every right to be.

We were discussing the Brexit vote. That wasn't FPTP.
ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 21:41

@buntybanana

ThousandsOfTulips but people Who are manipulated to vote a particular way because they can see no better way forward in their current circumstances are victims in a way

@shinynewapple21 This is the big question though. Were they victims of government manipulation (which absolutely did exist) or was it marginalised people putting two fingers up to the political elite, which ultimately ended up in them being worse off than before. Probably a mixture of both. Xenophobia and racism were definitely among their reasons to vote for Brexit. Yes they're is angry and yes they have a right to be - but now Brexit and the coming fallout is a consequence we'll ALL have to live with now.

Yep. Hence all sense of solidarity or sympathy in people I know - who have generally grown up in poor backgrounds but escaped - has evaporated. If you screw over your fellow citizens, put your fingers in your ears when they point out how obviously stupid what you are doing is, and insist that you understood the full ramifications and made this choice deliberately, then.... well. Having made us all poorer and having stripped us and our children and grandchildren of lots of important rights and protections, don't expect me to cry for you now the EU is no longer providing development grants to your area and good luck getting the Tories to replace that money. 😆
ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 30/11/2021 21:41

We were discussing the Brexit vote. That wasn't FPTP.

Why do you think the two are separate?

Politicians don't listen to us, they don't care, so they can all fuck off at the first available opportunity. Not a possibility?

What do people in Wigan care about MEPs swanning off to Brussels on large salaries? It's an irrelevance to them.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 21:48

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

We were discussing the Brexit vote. That wasn't FPTP.

Why do you think the two are separate?

Politicians don't listen to us, they don't care, so they can all fuck off at the first available opportunity. Not a possibility?

What do people in Wigan care about MEPs swanning off to Brussels on large salaries? It's an irrelevance to them.

Who mentioned anything about MEPs? Total irrelevancy. The EU membership was important for economic and geopolitical security, food security, energy security, cyber security, combating issues that cannot be dealt with at a national level such as international crime, climate change, tax avoidance by multinationalw or wealthy and mobile individuals etc.

It's no coincidence that all other developed countries around the world are forming large trade and political alliance blocks, not leaving them.

The people of the UK showed themselves on the international stage to be incredibly thick by failing to grasp these basic facts, and so the country is now far more vulnerable in many different ways than it was 5 years ago.

Yes, the people who chose to do this are responsible. If they didn't understand the implications of the vote they could have researched. If they couldn't be bothered then they shouldn't have voted at all. Voting is a right but with it comes the responsibility for owning the consequences.

ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 30/11/2021 21:54

Who mentioned anything about MEPs? Total irrelevancy.

An irrelevance, yes. My point exactly. Why would people vote for keeping something they see as irrelevant?

Not everyone is as enlightened and rational as you, Tulips. Leave 'em to stew, the ignorant peasants. Ignore and scorn them a bit harder. That'll solve it.

RobertaFirmino · 30/11/2021 21:54

@KrakowDawn

At least you have pies! Could be worse, could be Knowlsley.

The outcomes for children born there are horrific. Possibly worst in England Sad

That's where I was born! I live in Hull atm so yes, horrific outcomes indeed! I honestly thought OP was describing Hull at first, had no idea Wigan was that bad!
buntybanana · 30/11/2021 21:58

Having made us all poorer and having stripped us and our children and grandchildren of lots of important rights and protections, don't expect me to cry for you now the EU is no longer providing development grants to your area and good luck getting the Tories to replace that money.

@ThousandsOfTulips yes, unfortunately the political divide that existed before has been deepened irreparably by the Brexit vote. The irony that most of the furious xenophobic Brexit voters are the ones that will suffer the worst consequences of their decision would almost be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

Yes, the people who chose to do this are responsible. If they didn't understand the implications of the vote they could have researched. If they couldn't be bothered then they shouldn't have voted at all. Voting is a right but with it comes the responsibility for owning the consequences.

^ and this is why I sometimes find it hard to see them as the victims. Yes they were manipulated and yes they wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for Tory austerity decimating the country, but there was available free information out there to research before this vote. They got so caught up in revenge seeking & immigrants instead.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 21:58

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

Who mentioned anything about MEPs? Total irrelevancy.

An irrelevance, yes. My point exactly. Why would people vote for keeping something they see as irrelevant?

Not everyone is as enlightened and rational as you, Tulips. Leave 'em to stew, the ignorant peasants. Ignore and scorn them a bit harder. That'll solve it.

Hahaaa I am not "enlightened", anymore than anyone else who has a functioning brain and can read.

Sadly that seems too much to ask of some.

Perhaps you're right. Based on OPs description and another posters astute description of the "reverse sieve" effect, maybe all of the shitbags smashing up cars and windows, setting fire to stuff, racially abusing people and beating each other unconscious etc will wipe each other out eventually.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 22:04

@buntybanana

Having made us all poorer and having stripped us and our children and grandchildren of lots of important rights and protections, don't expect me to cry for you now the EU is no longer providing development grants to your area and good luck getting the Tories to replace that money.

@ThousandsOfTulips yes, unfortunately the political divide that existed before has been deepened irreparably by the Brexit vote. The irony that most of the furious xenophobic Brexit voters are the ones that will suffer the worst consequences of their decision would almost be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

Yes, the people who chose to do this are responsible. If they didn't understand the implications of the vote they could have researched. If they couldn't be bothered then they shouldn't have voted at all. Voting is a right but with it comes the responsibility for owning the consequences.

^ and this is why I sometimes find it hard to see them as the victims. Yes they were manipulated and yes they wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for Tory austerity decimating the country, but there was available free information out there to research before this vote. They got so caught up in revenge seeking & immigrants instead.

Exactly. I've no time for people who want to blame "immigrants" for their problems. Clearly zero knowledge of history, zero knowledge of economics, zero self-reflection. It is laughable that anybody says a place where these attitudes are considered normal has a good "culture" that's apparently just hidden from all of us outsiders. Unless you consider a tendency towards fascism a culture. Hmm

The people I feel sorry for are the ones who are trapped in such places and voted against Brexit, who disagree with all the racist, xenophobic rubbish. But you can see from the voting records that they are a minority, sadly.

tarasmalatarocks · 30/11/2021 22:05

@shinynewapple21 I agree with your post about deniers— personally (as a north midlander by birth) I like to call a spade a spade and then look at the underlying issues and any solutions. Have to say with regards to Brexit though , I’m absolutely baffled how they thought it would be ‘any way forward’ -

ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 30/11/2021 22:09

The idea that most of the furious xenophobic Brexit voters are the ones that will suffer the worst consequences of their decision would almost be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

It was grim up north in Orwell's time which was well before the EU, it was grim in 2016 and it's grim now. Nobody in Brussels was ever going to save Wigan.

Phrenologistsfinger · 30/11/2021 22:13

Yes, OP, I totally know what you mean it. I have encountered it on one of the rougher council estates on the outskirts of Leeds. It was so bad they hounded out anyone housed there who wasn’t ‘local’, immigrants but also people from another part of Leeds. The crime, destruction, animal abuse and blatant child neglect was hard to witness. I have never seen anywhere so depressing and I am not exactly naive - I grew up on council estates in the rougher parts of East London back when it was actually rough. But Leeds was something else entirely! Generations of chaos and disfunction.

tarasmalatarocks · 30/11/2021 22:15

@ThousandsOfTulips. Absolutely with you. Something I picked up on in my home town too was the amount of men (and it was mainly men) who suddenly became complete know it alls on logistics and international commerce too , based on Jack shit actual experience or knowledge or experience

Baluchistan95 · 30/11/2021 22:25

Perhaps you're right. Based on OPs description and another posters astute description of the "reverse sieve" effect, maybe all of the shitbags smashing up cars and windows, setting fire to stuff, racially abusing people and beating each other unconscious etc will wipe each other out eventually.

That's if you actually believe all trhat nonsense.

wheresmymojo · 30/11/2021 22:26

@GoGoPowerScooter

Do you live in Stoke on Trent, OP?

Ha! I was just about to say it sounds like my home city which is Stoke...

LittleRobin22 · 30/11/2021 22:29

Sounds like the shithole town I grew up in. Not many of us made it out, but I’m grateful everyday that I was able to. I have no reason to go back, and I hope I never will.

wheresmymojo · 30/11/2021 22:32

@Wingutyoy

OP there are plenty of us on here know exactly what you mean, there are far to many people who don't live in these areas and have never experienced what its like to actually LIVE in these areas not visit or pass thorough at all.

I have travelled around quite extensively as part of my job for many years spending months on end in different areas of the country on temporary basis and its always the same lefty types who tell me how wonderful these places are and it must be me with a problem, only because they don't bloody have it on their doorstep or live their.

I agree...pretty easy to pull the judgemental card when you haven't been there.

I realise now it's not Stoke, but it could be!

I'm born and bred Stoke from a working class ex-mining family.

It's horrifically depressing. I'd never go back.

I now work with quite a few people who stayed (we all commute to Watford - them from Stoke, me from Winchester) and they all agree too. They are also proper born and bred 'working class done good' Stokies.

It's not snobbery.

mankywits · 30/11/2021 22:33

@Bexxe

I'm honestly never one to comment something negative on here, but OP i feel sorry for you.

The entire post screams pretentious and condiscending.
And even after all of this, i still can't seem to fathom the point of this post?

You are leaving in the coming year, so why come on here to tell MN how much better you are than everyone who lives around you?

I hope for your sake, and for any (unfortunate) future neighbours, you find a lovely little rural home and moan about your distaste for anything below upper class in solitary.

I think you have missed the point OP is making
saltinesandcoffeecups · 30/11/2021 22:38

Oh dear, those tumbles off our high horses do sting a bit, don’t they.

This thread is restoring my faith in humanity. So let me put minds at ease… yes, it totally normal to hate , excuse me loathe someone different than you. Everyone feels it, but most won’t admit it out loud for fear of having their woke-citizenship badge revoked.

Good luck, OP…it’s hard to a fallible and flawed human in today’s world. I will say, we generally have more fun though.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 22:41

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

The idea that most of the furious xenophobic Brexit voters are the ones that will suffer the worst consequences of their decision would almost be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

It was grim up north in Orwell's time which was well before the EU, it was grim in 2016 and it's grim now. Nobody in Brussels was ever going to save Wigan.

www.myeu.uk/area/WN
ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 22:43

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Oh dear, those tumbles off our high horses do sting a bit, don’t they.

This thread is restoring my faith in humanity. So let me put minds at ease… yes, it totally normal to hate , excuse me loathe someone different than you. Everyone feels it, but most won’t admit it out loud for fear of having their woke-citizenship badge revoked.

Good luck, OP…it’s hard to a fallible and flawed human in today’s world. I will say, we generally have more fun though.

Right. So OP is victimised, racially abused and made to feel unsafe in her own street, shunned as an "incomer" and for being "posh" and "foreign" and it's her that's hateful? For having a little rant about it after SIX YEARS of putting up with that.

Ok then. 🤣

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 22:45

@Baluchistan95

Perhaps you're right. Based on OPs description and another posters astute description of the "reverse sieve" effect, maybe all of the shitbags smashing up cars and windows, setting fire to stuff, racially abusing people and beating each other unconscious etc will wipe each other out eventually.

That's if you actually believe all trhat nonsense.

I looked up the crime stats for Wigan earlier. So yeah, I believe the OP.
Baluchistan95 · 30/11/2021 22:58

I looked up the crime stats for Wigan earlier. So yeah, I believe the OP.

Link, please.