AIBU to loathe the people here?

[OnenessWithAllStrife]

Some people say that feeling a negative emotion or having unpleasant feelings about something shouldn't define you, that you should let the thoughts flow and then let them go. OK. I hope this to be true :(

But i have lived somewhere for the past 6 years that has brought me to conclusions and created feelings in me that I am not proud of. For the first time in my life I have actually come to loathe people and feel a sense of terror about being stuck with them. This is not particularly politically 'correct' when put into words, unfortunately, but I can't think of any other way to express it.

I moved to a town6 yrs ago in which I don't have much in common with the residents. It isn't unusual, just an ordinary large town which at one time contained more diversity, but in recent years has become very insular and homogenous. Everyone is angry, anti social, or depressed. If you don't openly discuss some sort of prejudice (racism, sexism, anti-intellectualism) you're 'soft in the head' or a 'bloody weirdo'.
Wherever I go here, in any direction, you will either see kids or drunk adults destroying property, or else screaming at each other in the street. There are a few select areas that are less challenging and rough, but the vibe is somehow the same.

Education or reading is a mugs game, football is the only passion, kids are yelled at for merely existing. Any conversation with a seemingly friendly stranger results in them wishing all the foreigners to go home. There is a general air of brutality to everything, a leathery, hard resistance to any kind of sensitivity whatsoever. Art, creativity and self reflection are suspicious, and the only permissible clothing is black or sport branded. Every damned street is choked with the fumes of endlessly revved up vehicles with ear splitting exhaust modifications. The environment is filthy, full of dog shit and bordering on dereliction.

I would once have considered all of this a problem of poverty, but it isn't quite that easy to determine, having witnessed it. There is no seeming variation in behaviour across income brackets here, it looks to be more cultural than income related, although the attitude towards learning, etc will obviously have the effect of creating more poverty regardless. It is like a self perpetuating cesspit of no hope and hard hearts. I thought i was a leftie, a socialist, but when I leave here I will be fucking marked by this and hope to never exist within it ever again.

We moved here for DP's work and are set to leave this coming year. I also appreciate that the residents and I have experienced very different upbringings and we do not share much in common, but even so, I think that you have to endure this to really, really see it, to come to fear it. It is easy to sit in a comfy armchair miles from it and 'defend' this stuff because you haven't truly sampled the existential sickness of it on your own doorstep.
I wish i didn't feel it, but it is difficult to lie to oneself, and the fear has probably evolved from having felt 'stuck' in it for so long. I wfh and DP does part time (some here regard us as 'pretentious' for this and have suggested we ought to do some 'real' work). It all feels very dated and odd, to be surrounded by values that repulse me and contain so little diversity. I mean, this is the type of place where you'll get side-eyed for cooking from scratch or having the audacity to flavour a dish with pesto.

Does this mean I loathe them? I don't know. I imagine I will chill with it when we have moved, as it all becomes a distant memory, but it has certainly left a mark. It feels wrong to state these feelings and observations, but I bet I am not the only one who has thought them....

@AdmiralCain

Wigan sounds like Detroit.

Yeah from someone that appears to have moved to the arse end of Wigan and is describing it from their one bedroom boarded up council flat. Its a wonder that hubby couldn't afford to rent somewhere a bit nicer, instead of slumming it like this. Kendal is approx 1 hour commute from Wigan, why bother moving there.

I fully sympathise, although my first guess was Burnley or Blackburn. Bury, Rochdale, Ashton-under-Lyne, Oldham, and Morecambe are all the same, as is Barnsley or Rotherham. Not sure about Hull, but it was top place in the first Crap Towns book a few years ago.

I have worked in Wigan and know exactly what you're describing, although I commuted in from Manchester and was able to leave it all behind at 5pm. My abiding memory is of a colleague telling me that if I ever ate at Taybarns (all you can eat cheap crap buffet on the road in from junction 25; I think it's now a Brewer's Fayre) then the trick is to get a table by the window so you can pass food through it to your friends outside so they eat for free. It was rife.

Wigan?! I thought you were going to say Widnes (way worse - sorry to anyone in Widnes). What’s up with Wigan, home of the mighty Pie Barm?

There are pockets of these places all over the UK. People with some means and aspiration move on as soon as they can, and the place spirals and develops a localised culture that is very entrenched and difficult to alter because of a deeply ingrained mistrust of anyone else.

I've worked in a variety of small towns of broadly similar socio-economic background on paper and the experiences have wildly differed. Some places were hostile, some very "salt of the earth" with their own joys. In hostile places, the decent people who are trapped keep their heads down for a quiet life to avoid notice by those who don't need an excuse to get aggressive. It's very difficult to come together and create something positive in those kinds of area because something so fragile is so easily ruined.

I was once driving and had to stop to ask a local if there was a B&Q in Wigan.

"No" he replied. "It's spelt W-I-G-A-N..."

Ah OP I feel this way about Bognor Regis, and I don’t live anywhere near it. I had to work there about a decade ago. I don’t think people are being fair with their comments. You’re allowed to feel however you feel and this will be exacerbated if you feel trapped and culturally isolated.

BR is the first place I have ever been where all I could think was ‘this is horrible’, and couldn’t find any redeeming features. It has been left to fall into complete disrepair and has a constant air of despair about it. One memorable moment was a drug addict waving his needles in my then toddler’s face on the high street and the police officer just shrugging. The level of anti-social behaviour is enormous.

There are definitely nice, kind people there- but they’re not visible to an ‘outsider’ member of the community, because they’re staying out of the limelight and out of the way of the aggressive ones. As their values lead them to move away, in moves someone else who either shares the place’s values, hates it but is stuck and will try to fit in or be invisible, or someone who moves out again as fast as they can. It’s such a vicious cycle.

@Otherpeoplesteens

I was once driving and had to stop to ask a local if there was a B&Q in Wigan.

"No" he replied. "It's spelt W-I-G-A-N..."

@Otherpeoplesteens

I was once driving and had to stop to ask a local if there was a B&Q in Wigan.

"No" he replied. "It's spelt W-I-G-A-N..."

Impressive that he got it right, I suppose. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Otherpeoplesteens

I fully sympathise, although my first guess was Burnley or Blackburn. Bury, Rochdale, Ashton-under-Lyne, Oldham, and Morecambe are all the same, as is Barnsley or Rotherham. Not sure about Hull, but it was top place in the first Crap Towns book a few years ago.

I have worked in Wigan and know exactly what you're describing, although I commuted in from Manchester and was able to leave it all behind at 5pm. My abiding memory is of a colleague telling me that if I ever ate at Taybarns (all you can eat cheap crap buffet on the road in from junction 25; I think it's now a Brewer's Fayre) then the trick is to get a table by the window so you can pass food through it to your friends outside so they eat for free. It was rife.

Um I'm a Bury born and Bred ,have you never been to Greenmount or Ramsbottom ?

Hi OP as someone who's moved around alot (6 different cities/towns in total) I have landed in one for a short stint for a year that sounds like what you're describing.

Yes it was hell, my flat was burgled and my car broke into twice in the space of a year and threats and intimidation just walking home even in daylight hours. I'm also already Northern, originally from a working class background so not hard to blend in but some places have just been allowed to rot and turned into "crab buckets".

I am however still super Left wing because it is the Right that has allowed this to happen. It suits them to have pockets of angry working class people with no aspiration and hope, blaming "foreigners" rather than Tories for their lot. I remember some nearly spitting that Jeremy Corbyn was going to spend spend spend from the "magic money tree" (that would have literally helped these places recover) but not a word about tax cuts for the rich and the dodgy PPE contracts we've seen since the last election.

I used to work in an outreach to help people get into education, training and work but all funding has gone and those outreaches no longer exist, same for youth sevices, social care has been cut to the bone and in some places jobs with career progression are non existant and high streets are pawnbrokers, pubs and betting shops. If you've grown up somewhere like this all your life it is so hard to break free without being ostracised and there is less lifelines than ever before.

I totally get everything you're saying OP. Noone will understand unless they've lived somewhere like this. Its not these peoples fault though, their lives have purposefully been made shit and a sophisticated propaganda machine is being used to keep them angry at the wrong people. Xxx

DH and I have liked all over - lived several locations midlands, north and south, towns cities even a village.

We ended up in a mildands town that was fucking awful - we really tried and we did find good people and we made the most of it - but underlying it there was near constant hostility - eveyone seemed to have a massive chip on their shoulders. Was a place people turned to Toires as they openely stated they wanted others to have less and there was an attitide towards non-locals - very much a local place for local people vibe.

Interesting I had to travel to Stoke - and got lost a few time there people were friendly with directions - wouldn't have had that reaction in the town we then lived in you'd have been met with suspection at best.

Found people in RL and on MN who experinced the place as incommers all had similar negative experinces but wider MN often dismisses anywhere can be like that and it must be you.

We're in a similarly deprived neigbhour now and yet people are polite even friendly. Even town DH grew up in somewhere with real poverty of aspiration was more bloody freindly and welcoming and not so bad to live.

I think if you grew up there it wasn't so bad - most of the friendly people we did met were incomers like us - and like us frequently moved on as soon as they could - or had lived elsewhere for a bit then moved back. Best thing we did was move away.

One of my best friends lives in Wigan. She makes pesto from scratch, keeps a Little Free Library in front of her house, and is completely obsessed with opera. She also works in the charity sector as an employment counsellor and mentor and spends lots of time with the "types" you so nastily describe and would (metaphorically) rip you from ear to arsehole if you dared to express this kind of garbage in her presence.

I blatantly do not believe that every conversation you have devolves into racism and xenophobia on the part of the person you're speaking to. I blatantly do not believe that everywhere you go, drunks and children are destroying property. I blatantly do not believe that anyone cares what you cook for dinner- and how on earth would they know? Do you mean people look at you funny for buying fresh vegetables at Tesco? Do you think no one else buys them and Tesco stocks them for appearances only and just throws out what you, personally, don't buy by the end of the week?

None of what you has said is true. You are exaggerating for effect. And why? What effect are you looking for? No one asked you about this. You started this thread and you are blowing this up in your own mind and trying to justify and find acceptance for your own fear and hatred of people that you see as less than yourself. You are doing exactly what you are accusing an entire city of doing, but with some navel-gazing and fancy language. Don't worry, I see right through it.

Apart from the size it all sounds very familiar to me. There are a few towns I've lived in that have made me realise I'm not everyone's idea of 'fun' or even 'normal' but there's always someone I can relate to. I have to try though. It is frustrating to be stuck somewhere for work, being insulted daily and being on the "outside' but I've come to accept it's the UK's hostility to 'other'. I seek out decent people and ignore ignore ignore. It helps that I'm prepared to travel to get to know people.

Good luck!

If you don't like Wigan, there's so many local places you could live that have a different vibe - just off the top of my head - Standish, Southport, Penwortham, Lancaster, Ormskirk, Aughton. All of those have a different feel to Wigan and the vast majority of people living in the nicer bits of the North West commute for work.

OnenessWithAllStrife I was thinking poor you but then after reading all these post I remembered I live in Croydon then I started to think poor me

@OnenessWithAllStrife
I do understand.
I was lucky enough to be born and raised in a reasonably 'Middle Class' area {Richmond, Surrey}
I visited a city way up North, and was shocked at how different it was, it seemed 20 years behind London, in so many ways.
Personally, I couldn't move to an area as depressing as what you describe, but I don't think ANYONE should have to.

The current City we live in has markedly less antisocial behaviour in the 'Nicer' areas, there is far more dog crap in the poorer areas and of course the omnipresent talentless tagging and litter and antisocial behaviour.

I've noticed that really 'right on' people live in wealthy areas where the problems of poverty are just read about, and they never have to witness it in 'Real life'.

For your own mental health, leave, if you are able to.

For a short while as a teenager I lived in 'Poorer' areas of London and was incredibly depressed by the environment, and the hopelessness of the kids .

Ironically the area has now been incredibly 'Gentrified' and is now seen as a desirable place to be.

Notting Hill always had a lovely vibe, long before that was 'Gentrified'.
I prefer Notting Hill as it was, compared to how it is, these days.

@NovemberNovemberDarkNights I’ll rephrase. The savings are from our house we sold in the Home Counties. I say we, DH owned it when I met him. So obviously, he also has the right to say what the savings are used for.

We were both made redundant about 5 years ago and got decent packages to be fair. We relocated to my hometown as we could afford to buy for cash and still have some savings

I just feel depressed as all I’d ever wanted was to live in/around London. So much to do, so much to see and everyone largely ignores you. My friend lives in Central London and I just think she’s so lucky; there’s not a food she can’t buy, always something going on, loads of different places that are easy to get to, she’s thinking about quitting her job and already has another two potentially lined up, whereas it took me over a year to find a permanent FT job here (and even then I have to drive a 50 mile round trip).

If we sold this now and used the savings, I don’t think we’d be able to afford much back down south. It’s not all about the south either, I’d like it if we lived somewhere that had a few independent cafes, somewhere nice to go for lunch. I used to live in Bishops Stortford years ago and that was great, small town so that I didn’t need to drive and decent links to London. We’d never be able to afford anywhere like that though.

I know I’m lucky I’m lots of ways but I went to see my friend a few weeks ago and I miss the whole vibe of London and the SE so much.

Morrissey, is that you?

@GoGoPowerScooter

Do you live in Stoke on Trent, OP?

I second this. I live here, it's grim.

You do sound properly pretentious though OP, you're judging a whole town.

Even in Stoke there's some absolutely wonderful souls.

Move then !.

OP, are you from somewhere in south England and currently living in the midlands or north England ?

I knew it would be Wigan! Guess where I live….PM me if you like @OnenessWithAllStrife

@crackofdoom

Did celebrity Wiganite Stuart Maconie not write a book called “Pies and Prejudice”?

I thought he was from Skem?

Cider with Roadies made me laugh until I cried.

Ain't yow got no normal toast?

I think it's totally normal to not get on in a place, simply because you don't fit in for whatever reason.
Luckily you're moving.
Reminds me of my parents when they bought their first flat in a cheap area of a large city. My mum hated it for less tangible reasons than you, so they sold up and moved.

@MLMshouldbeillegal

But you still haven't explained why you chose to live there in the first place...

Yes, she did. It was as a result of her DHs job at the time.

Presumably there are reasons why they haven't been able to be move away before, as there are for many people I see post here.

Op, I don't find your post offensive or supercilious even though I've lived in several poverty stricken towns.

Over the last 10-15 years there's been a gradual sea change in attitudes of many people. Things like Brexit have reinforced divisions and insularity. People with differing opinions no longer socialise together (or do so far less)...so much worse in recent years where anyone who has a different opinion to you in cancelled.

And those you claim to be against cancel culture do it too, they just don't call it that! If you disagree or dislike what someone says you completely shut them down and refuse to engage while maintained the moral and intellectual high ground. It benefits no-one, it doesn't change anyone's opinion it just makes everyone look equally bad and you end up with complete vacuums of balance and tolerance.