To not display a photograph of my rapist in my home

[FreedomAnniversary]

I have been told off in court by a NYAS barrister because I do not have a picture of my ex husband in my home. This is a person who has raped me, hit my while I was holding my newborn and also put his hand on my throat and threatened me.

NYAS have accused me of not encouraging the relationship with their father on purely that basis.

Am I being unreasonable to not have a picture of my abuser in my home?

@TurnUpTurnip

What? I don’t know anyone who has pictures of their exes on display on their house (even ones that aren’t abusive)

I was thinking this 🤔

I have no idea how these things work but can you complain about the judge. I was the child in a similar situation to yours and the judge gave custody to the parent with an abusive spouse despite recognizing in court the potential for abuse due to past behaviours. It doesn't seem like things have improved since then. Can you complain? Does anyone on this thread know if the OP could request another judge?

I was at a safeguarding meeting where social services were basically telling a mum they could remove her child because they knew she was still in contact with her abusive ex. The reason was the child told them she sees her dad every day and says goodnight to him. The mum told them her daughter had a photograph of her dad by her bed and was told to show them evidence of that ASAP. So a mum nearly lost her child because of a photograph!! It is just crazy.

We don’t have any photographs up in our house, sounds like the barrister was desperate to find a criticism of you. They are quite despicable
Don’t take it to heart

Because we all have pictures of our ex husbands in our home. Ffs Id have quite a gallery of them all! I've never heard anything so absurd.

@bloodywhitecat

That judge simply has no idea. YANBU.

Nothing to do with the judge

I don’t know anyone who has a photo of their ex in the home, let alone someone who experienced DV and rape. What a very strange thing for the judge to pick up on.

I don't know if I just comply given that they are now angry with me that the judge wouldn't order contact until assessments have been completed or if I point out the ridiculous things they are asking and try and get them dismissed as they are in breach or disability and equality rules.

Was this something they said in court, or on another occasion? If it was just a point put to you during a hearing, ignore it. You only have to do what the judge says, not what a barrister says.

Contact is supposed to be about the children isn't it?

Why it is ever deemed necessary for a child to have contact with the person who abused their mother in any form at all is completely beyond me.

Sorry, this is the CHILDREN'S advocate who wants you to do this? And the judge ordered no contact pending assessments and they don't agree??
Do the children have a cafcass court guardian? Have social services been asked to complete section 7 or section 37 assessment?

Ultimately you need to do what the judge says, not what anyone else's advocate says, but this is bizarre.

Oh OP I feel for you.

I don't understand this obsession with photographs in the family court. In my case, thankfully with no abuse apart from controlling issues, the topics or photographs was also brought up. Basically, not having a photo of the father on your wall means you are alienating the children.

Interestingly, no one asked him whether he has my photo up at his new place.

In my case, ridiculous, but in yours just horrific.

I cannot believe the things I have learnt reading this thread. I am so sorry OP.

Everyone needs to calm down.

This was something said by the barrister representing your XH?

So their job for which they are paid shedloads of money is basically to make your XH look like a fantastic father and you like a spiteful bitch who is stopping a good man seeing his kids. If they don't at least try and do that, they are not doing their job properly. This isn't personal. I used to work in courts. When you see barristers snarling at each other in court and then laughing and chatting together at lunch because they are actually besties from law school, you realise that the whole thing is just a fucking game.

If the fact that you do not have a photo of your ex in your house is the worst thing that they can level at you, then I probably wouldn't worry.

But please do not kick off in the court or say some of the things that people have suggested on here. Do not under any circumstances call your ex a rapist if that has not been proven in a court of law. Do not get angry or call him names. That is what they want. They are looking to provoke you so you get angry, kick off and then you look unhinged.

Just say there is no photo of your ex currently hanging up in your house but if the children would like to have some photos of their dad in an album or a frame, then you are happy to facilitate that if XH would like to provide some. Job done.

Outrageous and ridiculous. Of course YANBU.

OP, given the circumstances can you compromise with a small photo album the children can access if & when they want to, on their own terms, kept on a shelf in their room? So not a picture on a wall or bedside table but still a photo available.

Or if they have a tablet, some some digital photo's in a folder on it. After all who has hard copy photo's these days anyway?

So sorry for what you are going through and hope you and this children heal and recover.

@THisbackwithavengeance

Everyone needs to calm down.

This was something said by the barrister representing your XH?

So their job for which they are paid shedloads of money is basically to make your XH look like a fantastic father and you like a spiteful bitch who is stopping a good man seeing his kids. If they don't at least try and do that, they are not doing their job properly. This isn't personal. I used to work in courts. When you see barristers snarling at each other in court and then laughing and chatting together at lunch because they are actually besties from law school, you realise that the whole thing is just a fucking game.

If the fact that you do not have a photo of your ex in your house is the worst thing that they can level at you, then I probably wouldn't worry.

But please do not kick off in the court or say some of the things that people have suggested on here. Do not under any circumstances call your ex a rapist if that has not been proven in a court of law. Do not get angry or call him names. That is what they want. They are looking to provoke you so you get angry, kick off and then you look unhinged.

Just say there is no photo of your ex currently hanging up in your house but if the children would like to have some photos of their dad in an album or a frame, then you are happy to facilitate that if XH would like to provide some. Job done.

OP, listen to this. This is good advice.

It is not about the photo, it is to test whether you fly off the handle when things concern your ex. Smile and wave, no matter how hard it is.

Further proof of the rampant misogyny that abounds in the court system.

All the #MeToo movement backlash, to diminish women's rights even further, is making this sort of thing more commonplace.

That 4x rapist getting away with no sentence because it would damage his future, never mind the students he raped though; courts insisting on contact between abusive fathers and their children, regardless of how much danger said children might be in - and other things that I can't bring up on this board.

It's all about male supremacy and female submission and it STINKS.

I'm so sorry - absolutely you should NOT have to have his photo up - but if they insist, hang it face to the wall. That way you've obeyed the letter of the law without obeying the spirit of it.

Some states are hot on "parental alienation" and "father's rights" and don't care how many women and children they throw under the bus to make sure that men get what THEY want. I hope you get better results in court and that your poor kids are NOT subjected to contact with an abusive man, that's just shocking.

OP what that barrister said to you is absolutely disgraceful, tone deaf, ignorant of violence against women, etc etc I could go on.

I URGE you to put in a formal complaint about them. Is there anyone in the organisation you can make a complaint to? Even if to make sure it doesn't happen to another woman.

Sorry for what you’ve been through. It’s absurd for a barrister to demand anyone has a photo of their ex in their house. Actually it’s absurd to tell you to have a photo of anyone in your house.

That said, no legal professional other than those representing you (and definetly not those who are working against you) are going to be working of the assumption that allegations made by you which are as yet unproven in a court of law are the truth. Hard as it may be, you must realise that from the point of view of the law, unproven crimes aren’t taken into account in custody as in the laws eyes they’re non crimes (in law).

So sorry for you OP.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad

You really shouldn’t mock parental alienation (or high happens to women too) or fathers rights or put them in air quotes like they shouldn’t exist. Of course fathers should have rights.
I know a lovely man whose wife divorced him to leave for her affair partner who doesn’t get as much time with his kids as he would like and it’s horrible what she’s done.

I don't know if I just comply

Has the court ordered you to put a photo up? If not, don't. The NYAS barrister saying you should have a photo up has no legal force. You do not have to do what the barrister says unless the court tells you to.

The NYAS position as set out in your posts doesn't make sense. If he is being investigated as a possible child abuser, there is no way he should have contact until that investigation is complete. That is basic safeguarding.

It's appalling that they have expected you to have his picture anywhere in your house

So sorry you are going through this OP, I have been through the tedious police interviews and being told “it’s your word against his” and eventually being told that there wasn’t enough evidence to take him to court. He got away with everything other than harassment which could be proved. Luckily I didn’t have dc with him or he would have been granted some kind of access because obviously he wasn’t guilty of rape or abuse. The system isn’t fit for purpose, why would anyone allow a child to have contact with a rapist and abuser?

Stick to your guns and refuse to have a photo up, it’s crazy that they are suggesting it.

OP you must feel like you are going insane. Family, courts are not friendly towards women and children at all often putting them both in danger.

My friend started a new life after being in a womens refugee after her husband battered her. He also smacked her dd. Her In-laws started court proceedings for full custody of her dd, during the process my friend found out that her husband was a convicted pedophile. She had no idea. The family court would not look at all the circumstances and would only focus on the contact/custody case. So she had multiple legal cases going on at the same time. My friend had to pull her dd out of the school she had been in for 18 months and move back in to her old family home ( where she had been viciously beaten) whilst her husband moved in to his parents.

She was forced to have psychiatric assessments, the psychiatrist said my friend has 'anger issues' - not surprising considering what his family were putting her though. She was told by her barrister that if she didn't comply his parents had a good chance of gaining custody.

Despite being the victim she was treated like a criminal.

Family courts are evil and a terrifying place for women to be.

I’ll echo what others have said in that the family court circus is laced in misogyny.

I wish you luck op 🍀

@FreedomAnniversary
You may be better off re-posting this in Legal Matters.
At least one experienced lawyer has posted on your thread but their comments are being drowned out by people who mean well but don't necessarily understand who has the power to make orders in court.