Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

YANBU

I was also shocked by the amount of people who thought a meeting scheduled for 9am was beyond reasonable.

I don't encounter anti teaching people in real life thankfully.

What perks? The holidays is the only real one. There's often threads about Christmas bonuses & paid for parties etc - we buy our own Christmas dinner and take our own packed lunch if we go out on a trip.

I don't imagine you will get much support noblegiraffe - MN really does appear fairly anti teacher.

hours that can be aligned reasonably around their own childcare needs

Are you having a laugh?!

Teaching is not the hard part, it’s everything else that goes with it. SLT, Ofsted, deep dives, parents, wokeness, new frameworks, constant assessments, assessments of assessments, behaviour, SEN children in mainstream schools,lack of funding, reports to name a very few.

I am a good teacher. I care massively about the children in my class. I work part time as I have two small children. I feel on edge the whole time. Nothing is enough or good enough. I work every night until 1am, even on my days off and it is still not enough. It is so tough.

@spaceghetto

I am a good teacher. I care massively about the children in my class. I work part time as I have two small children. I feel on edge the whole time. Nothing is enough or good enough. I work every night until 1am, even on my days off and it is still not enough. It is so tough.

I hear you. My life is the same.

@converseandjeans by "perks" I would think most people are talking about the holidays, as well as usually-predictable work patterns. Yes the early start and lack of flexibility for a teacher isn't great when compared to people who have a 9-5 in an office, but undoubtedly better than constantly-changing shift work, nights, etc. Or the sort of jobs where you're on call 24/7.

As for the Christmas parties, bonuses, etc - that's a private/public sector divide, not just teaching. As a public sector worker I don't get a work Christmas meal paid for by taxpayers, and nor should I.

I think teaching would be incredibly tough and wouldn't want to do it. But the only thing that tempts me is the holidays, as it would save me a fortune in childcare (and I'd get to see the kids a bit more!)

I'm a Headteacher and I know that the demands I have to make on my teaching staff are huge. It actually pains me when I have to roll out a new initiative or new set of expectations.

At the start of the pandemic we were told wellbeing was the be all and end all. That soon disappeared as a priority.

Now, we are dealing with children who have had two years of disrupted education. Many have social and emotional issues.
We are desperately short staffed due to long covid - and yet the Local Authority are still looking at measuring progress and standards and making judgements about schools as if things were normal.

@spaceghetto

I am a good teacher. I care massively about the children in my class. I work part time as I have two small children. I feel on edge the whole time. Nothing is enough or good enough. I work every night until 1am, even on my days off and it is still not enough. It is so tough.

This is so true of many teachers.

And it makes me sad that feeling overwhelmed and struggling is now the norm in education.

I think teaching would be very difficult I respect anyone who does it

@spaceghetto

I am a good teacher. I care massively about the children in my class. I work part time as I have two small children. I feel on edge the whole time. Nothing is enough or good enough. I work every night until 1am, even on my days off and it is still not enough. It is so tough.

What are you doing until 1am? I’m not being snarky, I’m a teacher, but I’m in Scotland. What are you being expected to do?

I know it happens because so many teachers have described it, but what is all the bureaucracy that they're doing? If if it's assessing the kids, then what's the point if they then haven't got time to target any teaching to address any issues that may have been identified. It's a pointless exercise.

Is it driven by the Government, the SLT or Ofsted?

What would happen if a headteacher just refused to do it? Especially if the school was getting good results?

It just seems madness to me that it's driving a lot of good staff out of teaching, with apparently no benefit to anyone.

@converseandjeans

hours that can be aligned reasonably around their own childcare needs

Are you having a laugh?!

No I'm not "having a laugh".

Try arranging childcare to cover a 8 to 8 night shift that may or may not finish up to 3 hours late, or childcare to cover weekends and bank holidays including Christmas Day. This is the reality for many health and social care staff, some who are only earning minimum wage.

I don’t get why you all keep harking back to the 9am meeting thread and how it made you smile. I think you’ll find the majority of people who think it’s unreasonable to be logging on for 9 probably also recognise teachers have a rough time.

If, as I do, you’re pro workers rights, you’d like things to be better for everyone. I don’t think crapping on other people’s perfectly legitimate objections to aspects of their job does you any favours, just because you have it worse in yours.

It’s crap being a teacher. Don’t do yourself a disservice and alienate your supporters by sneering at them.

Took me 5 years in teaching to earn what I did as an almost fresh graduate in my early career. The pay and perks (haha) are not commensurate with the average graduate salary of £30k these days. Nor are the perks really perks these days. The pension scheme definitely isn't what it was. The holidays... yes they are great but the term time hours are insane. I leave the house at 7am and return to pick kids up at 4pm. So that's the 9-5 hours, with no lunchtime usually. I then do at least 2hrs an evening on top. So it's just compressed hours. 55 hours a week is the AVERAGE teacher working time.

For about £36k on top of main scale. UPS is like hen's teeth for new teachers these days.

It's not really that great for a postgraduate career.

To all the teachers out there who are struggling on and doing their best for my kids - I support you and I just want to some day get a government in that actually works to improve the education system and your working conditions, rather than the current meat-grinder existence.

There's no way I would train as a teacher in the current system and curriculum. Teaching seems to be only a small part of the role, crazy hours, pressure - and to pay for that privilege, no thanks.

The Education system has become royally screwed up through underfunding and over focus on testing and results - to achieve entry to a university which will launch you into the world of work with £40k+ debt. Unless seeking entry to a specific profession does this pathway actually make sense once critical thinking is applied to it?

[quote Meandmini3]@Findingthelight1 I’m hoping you’re looking up a list of jobs that make workers accountable to outside inspecting bodies for no promoted job role, pay or time during their working hours to deal with those responsibilities…. I am very keen to know about them so I can avoid those jobs in the future too![/quote]
Care work

All the other industries mentioned with high expectations of out of hours working, unpaid responsibilities and long hours for low(ish) pay while professional qualifications are expected are female dominated too.

Funny that, isn't it .

I completely agree that teaching is a very busy and stressful job. I’m in work for around 10-11 hours most days and barely made it through last term with the workload. I absolutely love it though.

I’d still argue it’s an easier job in many ways than retail and hospitality.

The thing that annoys me about teachers is that they think they are only ones who have a hard job

My last job in care i could not get child care for an 8-8 shift, bank holiday, Christmas Day
I was often had to work longer that my hours
I had life and death responsibility for min wage pay
I don’t get a Christmas party paid for
I had to do many training that was on my day off
I had to work weekends
My pension is so low it’s not even worth it
I have left and it was the best choice I have ever made
Teachers are not the only ones who work hard so stop thinking they are

I've worked in hospitality. Teaching is much more mentally taxing however teaching is usually better paid.

Hospitality that requires post grad study is few and far between.

Every job people are saying is "worse" also has a huge retention crisis (care, NHS, social care).

I don't think teaching is the worse job possible. But the conditions make it unsustainable for many and mean that governments are funding lots of new teachers who stay 1-2 years and move on. This is a drain on the tax payer.

I'm training to be a teacher.

I am also a qualified accountant and I can confirm teaching isn't easy.

Subject knowledge, while important, is only half of it; how to teach (pedagogy) is super tricky! You have to get all children improving and Covid has widened performance gaps, increased mental health issues and made children far more passive in their learning, with much less resilience and curiosity. All this you have to juggle. Good teachers make it look easy and people just wouldn't realise what they are doing to keep children engaged.

You never leave at three, and holidays incorporate a lot of prep for the start of the school year.

Teaching and medical professions are 2 I wouldn't touch with a bargepole, fuck that. A small but important part in the shortage of both imo is that the qualifications are not overly accessible. Many want to retrain once they have some experience under their belt etc but can't afford to be out of work for a year to 3 years, take on student debt and run a household without being able to work as placements are so long.

I’m hoping you’re looking up a list of jobs that make workers accountable to outside inspecting bodies for no promoted job role, pay or time during their working hours to deal with those responsibilities….

I hope you don't think that Ofsted is the only inspectorate. All of the NHS, the police, care homes, children's and adult social care are all subject to inspections and dealing with those inspections is of course stressful. I definitely think you can argue about how well the inspectorates are functioning but it's definitely not all uniquely a teaching/schools issue