Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

I don't think anyone would be daft enough to think teaching was easy but I do think most people realise that there are jobs that are equally hard, sometimes harder, than teaching but without the perks that teaching has.

It's just intolerable being in a system that's so exam-driven when the exams aren't working properly. For the third year running!

I often see it posted on here that teachers' pay is good. All I can wonder is what jobs those posters do that they're comparing it with. And where they live, because here on the outskirts of London it's rubbish.

My post-grad children have walked into first jobs in their early 20s that pay similar salaries to mine after 30+ years of teaching.

The fact that the only significant funding that his been put in, in the wake of all the COVID-related disruption to education, is to increase Ofsted inspections speaks volumes about the government's priorities. And it isn't the education of children.

@Willyoujustbequiet

I don't think anyone would be daft enough to think teaching was easy but I do think most people realise that there are jobs that are equally hard, sometimes harder, than teaching but without the perks that teaching has.

But what ‘perks’? If it’s the holidays - most are unpaid, it’s just salaried across the year. I’d it’s the pension, has changed in 2014 from final salary benefit to a career percentage.

@EmeraldShamrock

From what I read on here, there is little respect towards teachers in the UK.

It shocks me, most classes in Ireland have 2 qualified teachers and extra support teachers for reading and mathematics sometimes 3 in the classroom during lift off reading.

From providing class stationery, long paperwork trials, under staffing, headteachers bossing unnecessarily, harsh unattainable deadlines, impossible due to staffing support issues, it seems like a thankless job.

The government will regret it in 10 years when no-one is training.

Well that shocks me too! I live in Ireland & I have never heard of this, anywhere, ever!

Where are these magical schools cause I'd like to send my child there?

But I’m not complaining! I love my job - it’s all I’ve done (apart from part time work as a student). As with all teachers we just dislike being told we have perks when actually it’s the opposite. DH and I miss all our DC’s events at school. We schedule all appointments for holidays. We can’t take time off in term. (Luckily DCs are typical teacher kids - go with the flow!)

My view - it's not an easy job but not the hardest job out there either and does come with some decent benefits like pension and school holidays (also downsides like very little term time flexibility)

Being an ok teacher isn't that tough. Being an excellent teacher requires a very specialist skills set. Most adults, if put on the spot, could get 30 kids through 6 hours of XYZ for five days. It's tiring but it's not all that. Only 1 in 100 can do it in a way that clarifies, motivates, inspires etc every single child in that class 90+% of the time. PLUS be willing to dedicate 50-60 hours to doing that. And that's before we factor in that a good 20% of schools have a pupil intake which makes that 90+% hit rate literally impossible to achieve even for the very, very top teachers.

Of course Ofsted isn't so much interested in the reality.

Ofsted is the single biggest factor in the teacher recruitment crisis IMO

I'm not sure they're responsible for the recruitment crisis, a lot of people don't know about the impact of Ofsted until they are signed up. They are definitely a massive factor in the retention crisis though.

The government certainly needs to do something urgently to retain experienced teachers otherwise there will be no one to train the few PGCE students who do apply.

Announcements about paying NQTs £30k (now deferred) with no mention of changes up the pay scale show that they have no intention to make any efforts to retain experienced staff.

Retention is the biggest problem by far. I've seen many experienced (or early career but good) teachers leave because they've had enough.

ECTs/NQTs aren't paid enough to stay, they can train, do a year and then get a job in the civil service with better perks and no pay cut.

Make the conditions right (nationwide) for people to stay in teaching. Reduce the external pressures, fund schools adequately and stop making schools solve all societal problems.

I would never teach in the UK again. The lack of respect, the ever-increasing workload (mostly involving pointless data), the constant monitoring by management to make sure we were all delivering the same Ofsted-approved tick-a-box lessons, and the inability to really do anything about poor behaviour all served to suck the joy out of the job for me.

That was a decade ago. I can only imagine how much more shit it would be post-Covid. I say good luck to anyone who wants to give it a go - they'll need it. Your government has fucked your education system beyond belief.

@noblegiraffe

Ofsted is the single biggest factor in the teacher recruitment crisis IMO

I'm not sure they're responsible for the recruitment crisis, a lot of people don't know about the impact of Ofsted until they are signed up. They are definitely a massive factor in the retention crisis though.

The government certainly needs to do something urgently to retain experienced teachers otherwise there will be no one to train the few PGCE students who do apply.

Announcements about paying NQTs £30k (now deferred) with no mention of changes up the pay scale show that they have no intention to make any efforts to retain experienced staff.

So true. It’ll be galling to work alongside a NQT who will earn slightly less than me as a teacher of 22 years. Especially as it’ll be us ‘oldies’ who will be providing the training/advise/resources/shoulder to cry on …

*advice

The threads over the last week about school detentions have confirmed that many parents have no respect for teachers and talk about them as though they're shit on their shoe. I loved teaching for most of my career but I'm so thankful I never have to set foot in a classroom again.

Unless the government address the retention problem there will be increasing numbers of schools that simply can't function.

Would you really want the idiots on here spouting such nonsense teaching children? I wouldn't trust them with a goldfish.

However the government's are not exactly helping matters. In Scotland, they continuously prioritise probationary teachers over fully qualified ones for jobs. And just want the fully qualified ones on supply contracts so they aren't permanent and may have no work suddenly. Every summer, they have to reapply for new jobs and hope it's in the area they live. And yet, every year, dumbass sturgeon keeps putting up adverts for more teachers to start studying. I don't blame them for wanting out of it, it's not a secure industry, and it's not like they are paid well despite it being short term potentially.

The more that walk, the more likely the government's will maybe realise they are wrong and redo the system. But I won't hold my breath, that would require some level of intelligence.

I wanted to retrain as a primary teacher - applied & was accepted on a great course at a respected Uni. Then I started the process of funding & realised all the supposed funding to help with childcare, etc I wasn't eligible for as my husband's salary (close to national average) was too high. As a parent with two children, one who would have needed to be put into extra childcare whilst I trained, mortgage, bills, travel expenses it just wasn't feasible on just the student loan.
No bursaries available for any primary courses, just key secondary ones. I met several other people applying only for courses with a bursary despite that not being a subject they wanted to teach, because they too - as recent graduates with no dependents etc - couldn't afford to do the course they wanted.
Until they sort out the availability of funding then they aren't going to get many people willing & able to afford the training.

And then watch the MN boards explode with rage, with threads started by some of the very posters who have made teachers' lives misery over the last couple of years.

I'm not a teacher but I'm always astonished by office workers (like me!) saying that teachers know nothing about the real world. They're at the coal face of ever social problem every single day!

@CallmeHendricks

And then watch the MN boards explode with rage, with threads started by some of the very posters who have made teachers' lives misery over the last couple of years.

Absolutely.

Exactly, Pleasant!
And there was a thread recently with FURY from office workers about the cheek of a boss who scheduled a meeting at 9am because it coincided with the school run and more than a few were incredulous that a 9am meeting would mean clocking on 10 minutes before that.
Yet we teachers are the ones who are believed to have a family-friendly job. Little chance of ever taking your own kids to school, or attending their nativity or sports day.

That thread was eye-opening, Callme, and I spotted a fair few usernames who are normal teacher bashers who were absolutely indignant that their employer should expect them to log on before 9.30 🤣

@Hercisback

Retention is the biggest problem by far. I've seen many experienced (or early career but good) teachers leave because they've had enough.

ECTs/NQTs aren't paid enough to stay, they can train, do a year and then get a job in the civil service with better perks and no pay cut.

Make the conditions right (nationwide) for people to stay in teaching. Reduce the external pressures, fund schools adequately and stop making schools solve all societal problems.

Genuine question: I'm a teacher, 8 years classroom experience (excluding a 4 year career break to raise small children). I'm on 39k- what sort of comparable job in the civil service could I be looking at?

I'm 15 years in, part time, in a school that really does try to have sensible policies. I am very lucky in lots of ways, but I think I'm nearly done.
I'm really not sure what would need to change for me to enjoy it again like I used to. If exams are cancelled again I think it will break me.
We have wonderful new teachers in our department, some fresh from uni and others who are older, with previous careers, families and responsibilities. They have never known teaching outside of Covid and I worry that it's just too much for them! I want to encourage them buts hard when I feel so disheartened by it myself.

TEACH ABROAD!

I’m not a teacher (I am from a family of teachers) and I work in schools.
We don’t have a massive issue with teaching staff retention or recruitment as much as support staff. They are paid peanuts and so much is expected of them, including working extra hours and managing loads of shit beyond their job description for barely minimum wage. They do leave, all the time. Teachers are having to pick up their work because there are so many vacant posts.

Something seriously needs to be done about the poor management in schools though. SLT and heads often on massive wages (especially where we live) passing the buck at every opportunity, zero people management skills. I currently work somewhere the head hides all the time, especially if there is an issue. He will send pastoral staff to manage, whilst he sits in his office. He only comes out to nitpick what people are doing before disappearing and making social media videos to show how brilliant the school is. No one feels supported by him.