Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

@GuyFawkesDay Yeah, it depends what your degree is in though, and what part of the country you live in. Lots of people on my uni course (humanities subject) went into teaching and have similar complaints re the pay. I would never say it out loud to them but they're being naive. With a humanities degree from a middle of the road university, it would be very difficult to earn £30k+ in any job other than teaching. It's different if your degree is in A STEM subject.

@Iheartbaby

The thing that annoys me about teachers is that they think they are only ones who have a hard job

My last job in care i could not get child care for an 8-8 shift, bank holiday, Christmas Day
I was often had to work longer that my hours
I had life and death responsibility for min wage pay
I don’t get a Christmas party paid for
I had to do many training that was on my day off
I had to work weekends
My pension is so low it’s not even worth it
I have left and it was the best choice I have ever made
Teachers are not the only ones who work hard so stop thinking they are

Teachers do not think they are the only ones who work hard.

But they do have to put up with the public perception that it's an easy job.

That they play all day (early years)
That the job is 9-5
That pupils just sit and listen whilst they deliver lessons (same old stuff every time so no preparation needed)
That marking is just a tick

These threads always end up with people saying there are harder jobs. The difference is you don't get loads of people who've never worked in the profession making threads about how easy policing/nursing/social care/retail is.

The thing that annoys me about teachers is that they think they are only ones who have a hard job

The vast vast majority of teachers do not think this.
If a nurse has a moan about their job (god knows there’s a lot to moan about), people don’t assume she/he is claiming they have it worse than anyone else.

Iheartbaby
The thing that annoys me about teachers is that they think they are only ones who have a hard job

Show me where any teacher has said that?

Teachers are not the only ones who work hard so stop thinking they are

and yet they don't think that at all.

@bizboz

These threads always end up with people saying there are harder jobs. The difference is you don't get loads of people who've never worked in the profession making threads about how easy policing/nursing/social care/retail is.

Everyone's an expert because everyone went to school.

I've been a teacher for more than 30 years and the job and the responsibilities and demands have changed so much in that time.

Thats a really narrow view @AngelDelight28 - there are many, many business routes open to humanities grads. And few degrees offer a golden ticket including STEM- working success depends on the individual.

The thing that annoys me about teachers is that they think they are only ones who have a hard job
Nope. I couldn't be in health or the armed forces or the police or work on an oil rig or a windfarm. I would hate to teach early years or primary, and I certainly couldn't be a nursery nurse.
Doesn't mean my job isn't hard though.

@bizboz

These threads always end up with people saying there are harder jobs. The difference is you don't get loads of people who've never worked in the profession making threads about how easy policing/nursing/social care/retail is.

That’s because most people in other jobs don’t keep going on about how hard their job is

@Iheartbaby I don't believe for one second that teachers think they are the only ones with hard jobs 🙄. Just fed up of justifying ourselves all the time and people saying it's a piece of piss.

@AngelDelight28 that's bunkum as geography graduates have some of the highest employment rates and salaries due to their skills. I hate that this "Humanities" has expanded to include all sorts of subjects.

My geography degree (albeit a top one from the best department in the country) got me plenty of milkround offers and opportunities so 🤷‍♀️

I bloody love teaching. It's fantastic. It's also a job where ultimately very little is in your real control. Doesn't matter how hard you work, the results of your efforts depend on other (small) people. That's hard. Really hard.

[quote friedeggandsauce]@Iheartbaby I don't believe for one second that teachers think they are the only ones with hard jobs 🙄. Just fed up of justifying ourselves all the time and people saying it's a piece of piss.[/quote]
Well teachers need to stop starting threads about hard their job is then they would not have to justify it

I know it happens because so many teachers have described it, but what is all the bureaucracy that they're doing?

Lately, with covid, often teachers have been expected to teach children who are isolating at home at the same time as teaching those who are in the classroom, effectively doubling workload.

Marking requirements have got more insane over the years. When I started teaching we had Y11 mocks in November, and it was two papers. Now we do full GCSE papers at the end of Y10, in November of Y11 and March of Y11, and it's three papers for maths now, not two. This is a huge amount of extra marking that goes unacknowledged.

There has also, over the years, become an increasing expectation to do 'intervention'. Spreadsheets of pupils who are failing to meet computer generated targets, where you have to detail what interventions you have put in place (often in your own time), and updated regularly with their impact (or lack thereof).

Email has made teachers more accessible to parents and so a lot more time is spent dealing with correspondence. SLT often give 'contact home' as part of a behaviour policy, forgetting that many teachers are teaching full days and don't have an office with a phone so this is not something that can be done quickly or easily.

The need for detailed feedback makes marking more complicated than it used to be.

Mental health, safeguarding and SEN. As the various support agencies have collapsed and funding has dwindled, far more now falls on the individual teacher to try to support these children. Covid has obviously made things far worse here too.

Actual teaching in the classroom feels like a very small part of it these days.

Well teachers need to stop starting threads about hard their job is then they would not have to justify it

Do you have kids in school? If so, you should be worried about the articles in the OP.

@noblegiraffe

Societies infrastructure relies on these posts being filled or things start to unravel. More pay or better working conditions to meet supply and demand.

Can you please explain this to the government who seem to think that constantly taking the piss of school staff is the way forward?

Na everyone knows teachers are just child care!

I can't imagine anything worse than teaching secondary school. Teachers aren't just teachers anymore are they? They are social workers, parents, administrators and if really lucky sometimes educators. Not really surprising is it that there is a recruitment and retention problem.

@Nayday Yes I know there are, but outside of London not many of those opportunities will pay £30k after a few years in the job, like teaching.
Lots of humanities graduates also end up low paid admin, retail, hospitality, call centre etc jobs, who also work long hours but will never earn close to £30k.

@GuyFawkesDay Admittedly I wasn't really thinking of Geography here, which I imagine has many practical skills, but rather subjects like History, English Lit, Modern Languages etc. Good on you for getting Milkround offers but for every graduate on a good graduate scheme there are hundreds in low paid jobs wondering how to make a career out of their humanities/arts degree. It's no coincidence that about 90% of my course mates went into teaching.
I'm not bashing teachers nor humanities degrees btw, just pointing out that for some graduates £36k in teaching is actually an excellent salary and more than they'd be earning outside of teaching.

pumperthepumper

What are you doing until 1am? I’m not being snarky, I’m a teacher, but I’m in Scotland. What are you being expected to do?

I think OFSTED is more of a worry in England. I may be wrong but I've seen on threads that there's not as much scrutiny in Scotland.

@AngelDelight28 I write as a English Lit grad living outside London and earning well beyond 30k. There are tonnes of roles and sectors, Marketing/HR/Sales/Technology Project Management/Business Analyst etc etc. I'm not really understanding why you feel humanities grads are destined for teaching or a low paid job. Unless you're Michael Gove in disguise 🤣

findingthelight

I think teaching would be incredibly tough and wouldn't want to do it. But the only thing that tempts me is the holidays, as it would save me a fortune in childcare (and I'd get to see the kids a bit more!)

The holidays are great but term time it's tricky - my children's primary had no breakfast club & so couldn't be dropped off until start of school day at 8.20. Myself & DH both teach & have to be in school ourselves before then. We had a tricky 4 years juggling this until DH got job in same school - but DC used to leave home 7am & sit around while he got set up for the day. So I don't know if it's a perk - many people who worked 9-5 could drop on their way to work.

The only way either of us could ever watch DC events was for DH to work there. Otherwise they would have been the kid with nobody there to watch.

Anyway it's not a race to the bottom - I imagine organising childcare for a Christmas shift would be tricky & sympathise.

@noblegiraffe Do you think any of the extra bureaucracy has improved situation for the pupils? I can’t see the number of mocks helping much.

The trouble is from the outside and probably to politicians and voters tracking childrens progress seems good. Do the interventions mean that less children are missed if they are struggling or coasting? (maybe not all schools/yours, but schools with not as much improvement for pupils from whatever place they start.)

Completely see that a huge number of safeguarding and social issues have been left with schools - who are really on the front line and then often fall guys with social services when dreadful things happen to children because “someone” should have done something.

@converseandjeans

pumperthepumper

What are you doing until 1am? I’m not being snarky, I’m a teacher, but I’m in Scotland. What are you being expected to do?

I think OFSTED is more of a worry in England. I may be wrong but I've seen on threads that there's not as much scrutiny in Scotland.

That’s absolutely true, there isn’t. That’s why I asked, what are you being expected to do until 1am in England?

Also @AngelDelight28 it's not just about long hours. I did long hours on my first corporate job. On the train to the City at 6am kind of hours. Had to take professional qualifications as well as working (yep, I have those too). It was hard but enjoyable.

But at no point was I responsible for the output of other people in situations I had no control over (ie. exams). Never. Even when I had 5 staff working for me, I knew what was going on and could lead, guide and manage. Now....if a 16 year old decides to write "I am a fish" on an exam paper 500 times I have zero control over that. Yet now, it potentially decides my pay.

Working hard/long hours is only a part of the puzzle.

@Pumperthepumper Noble has written a detailed post above with the admin requirements.

Last year the TAG process took hours of my life to ensure students were accurately graded. I did work that I would ordinarily be paid for (by the exam board) for free (and on top of my normal workload).

Monitoring and tracking interventions is majority wasted time. Giving teachers more time to plan effective lessons would have far more impact.

@Pumperthepumper planning, marking, setting work for online learning, sorting emails, completing various pieces of work for subject lead stuff, always preparing for ofsted by reading. I am new to teaching so think it takes me longer than others, I find it incredibly tough but quite stuck now.

@Nayday Because that's what my observations are, when looking at the cohort I went to uni with, at an average university in a northern town. It might be different at a Russel Group uni/Oxbridge.
Yes there are well paid opportunities out there but the number of humanities/arts graduates in the UK vastly outnumbers the number of well paid jobs available for them. So it's not much of a stretch to understand that while some of these graduates will be earning well, many others won't be. The sectors you mention don't always pay well, I've seen marketing and HR job adverts in my region with a £24k salary, and asking for several years' experience.
The course mates I mentioned were looking for graduate jobs unsuccessfully for a couple of years, a few others were in professional but low paid jobs, then they all did PGCEs. They're earning more as teachers than they would otherwise have done but still moan about the pay 🤷‍♀️