Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

I don't think I have ever seen a teacher post that they are the ONLY profession who work long hours, at weekends,overtime, ridiculous hours etc, but that they are ONE of the professions that do.

OTOH I have worked with numerous career changers who have left teaching because they just can't get their head around why teachers put up with so much shit for so little money.

Making teaching more attractive isn't just about the money. It's about stripping away the crap (paperwork mostly), get rid of the entitled attitudes, and give schools funding to support students properly.

I don’t think the stress in teaching will be accepted until enough have left the profession and the system has collapsed.

I'm not really sure what teachers earn apart from the big salaries of head teachers and of course that can vary enormously.

What would you earn after 30 years teaching out of interest?

I'm guessing NQT start on about £20 to £25,000 ish?

www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/england-pay-scales.html

www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/england-pay-scales.html

We're way, way beyond the ability to be picky now

Agreed. I went into teaching later in life and at some level, I enjoy it. I class myself as ‘adequate’. I plan, I mark, I adjust and juggle. I am flexible and teach subjects I’m not trained for and have little knowledge of. My main subject is shortage area - I was snapped up by a private school 6 years ago and they hold on to me even though we all know I’m nothing more than ‘good enough’. Prior to me, they had a succession of 8 qualified supply teachers who were all shades of ‘not quite good enough’ to the ‘down right useless’. That’s a private school, that’s still in the TPS and is thriving even in the shadow of covid. I am quite sure 20 years ago I’d have struggled to work at the worst schools, let alone have a chance at working in the best ones. My own children are being taught by a succession of NQTs with no continuity whatsoever. As parents we should be screaming about this from the rooftops. We should be demanding change. Sadly, the Tories have such a hold now and I can’t see many parents who give a damn - too busy blaming us, not the budget cuts and Whitehall too little too late policies. We are fast becoming ‘third world’ in so many ways.

I’m primary SLT and classroom teacher and I am resigning soon. The job has become too much for the hours available. The disrespect from the media, public and government is awful. The pressure due to Ofsted is unreasonable. A primary school teacher’s job is no longer all about teaching a class of children. It’s about getting the teaching bit out of the way so we can complete reams of pointless paperwork for other people’s “accountability”. Don’t even get me started on deep dives and subject leadership. I can’t think of many other jobs that put that pressure and accountability on to people without any extra pay or time to do it in! I’m talking about the regular classroom teachers in primaries - I know that as SLT I have signed my life away to unlimited working hours and responsibilities. I put my own children into childcare for some of each holiday to try and keep up with it! I work evenings and weekends. I am a good teacher who is respected and well-thought of as a school leader. I am good at my job. I love my job. It will be a shock to my school that I am leaving the profession but I’ve had enough. This can’t be my life any longer!

Practical things that would have kept me in the profession

1. Fixed working hours
2. Proper funding for children with SEND (the pressures on classroom teachers due to a lack of this is unbearable if you’re expected to include children with significant needs in a class of 30+ with no funding or support)
3. Time during the working day to adequately discharge all of the non-teaching parts of the job (I am not moaning about marking and planning here - I’m talking about all the other paperwork to do with subject leadership, SEND, looked after children, safeguarding, monitoring, assessment, speaking to parents and so on).

I can’t think of many other jobs that put that pressure and accountability on to people without any extra pay or time to do it in!

I think you'll have a shock outside of teaching, unfortunately.

@A580Hojas

You would expect the majority of teachers to struggle getting beyond M6 nowadays, even with good exam results. Not all teachers can take on responsibilities or go into management. Many that do take on responsibilities and go into management shouldn’t. I have a responsibility I am not paid for - but as a private school, they can easily get away with that.

@Findingthelight1 other jobs make people accountable to outside inspecting bodies without any formal promoted job role, pay and time to complete the duties relating to it?

@Findingthelight1 for the record, I have previously worked outside of teaching so I have been on the other side once before. I’ll be alright thanks!

I am not and would never be a teacher but I also have no kids so not feeding in. But I do have teachers who were fair and stable and those who were rather nutty as a kid. Looking back I wouldn't trust certain teachers with my Sister's dogs. Let alone my Nephew and Niece.

@Vates

I am not and would never be a teacher but I also have no kids so not feeding in. But I do have teachers who were fair and stable and those who were rather nutty as a kid. Looking back I wouldn't trust certain teachers with my Sister's dogs. Let alone my Nephew and Niece.

Strangely enough I know certain parents that I also wouldn't trust with your sisters dogs.

@DeepaBeesKit

I work in a private sector employer that for complicated reasons gets quite a few ex secondary teachers joining.

They don't know what's hit them. Lots assume that 9-5 working hours with 25 days annual leave means never having to work late in a busy patch or check emails on a weekend, and have assumed teachers are the only people working long hours.

They are usually horrified by what they are offered pay wise, especially with the pension estimates.

Lots return to teaching. The ones who stay are the ones who weren't expecting massively greener grass, but wanted flexibility over working hours/wfh etc which often simply aren't possible in the classroom.

If only checking and answering a few emails over the course of a weekend was all that was expected of teachers! Clearly DeepaBers doesn’t have many teacher friends or they would know that most teachers spend much of their weekend planning, marking, and updating assessments.

And sadly for young teachers the once very good (though of course heavily contributed to) pension is I believe a thing of the past. I am glad though that DeepaBees has recognised that flexible hours/ wfh are working privileges teachers don’t get, as is the option of booking out of season holidays. Nor are the annual bonus schemes, private health insurances, car or travel cost loans that often accompany private sector employment.

@Findingthelight1 I’m hoping you’re looking up a list of jobs that make workers accountable to outside inspecting bodies for no promoted job role, pay or time during their working hours to deal with those responsibilities…. I am very keen to know about them so I can avoid those jobs in the future too!

other jobs make people accountable to outside inspecting bodies without any formal promoted job role, pay and time to complete the duties relating to it?

Yes, of course they do. Just ask low-paid local authority and social services staff going through an Ofsted inspection of children's services, for example.
It's very shit and it shouldn't happen, but it's not confined to teaching.

@DanglingMod

That thread was eye-opening, Callme, and I spotted a fair few usernames who are normal teacher bashers who were absolutely indignant that their employer should expect them to log on before 9.30 🤣

As a former teacher I too had to smile at those refusing to log-in before 9.30! I was inevitably in school before 8am to be able to clear some of the trivia expected of me, and I retired in 2005 but know it's exponentially worse now. The majority of teachers love to teach but all the peripheral stuff of box-ticking, social worker, marriage guidance, parking patrol etc chase many away.

I agree with you OP, I’ve heard many parents say those exact words regarding holidays …. It’s one job that I’d never, ever, want. It can’t be easy trying to teach the kid that never wants to learn, or never being able to punish them for anything. I’d certainly never have wanted to teach me either . We had teachers at our school that only ever lasted a term. As much as I appreciate the NHS, I’d much rather work for them & be busy doing nothing shuffling my papers all day long.

I don't think teaching is easy but I also don't think it is harder than the vast majority of other jobs.

However it does offer certain 'perks' (long holidays, hours that can be aligned reasonably around their own childcare needs, no night shifts, good pay and t&c compared to many). I think that some teachers often seem to overlook these positives factors when they are explaining how the grass is greener elsewhere.

I certainly don't envy any gender critical teachers who are very much in the centre of the ongoing mess.

hours that can be aligned reasonably around their own childcare needs 😂😂😂

The majority of teachers struggle with childcare, particularly for morning drop offs.

My DHs job at 9-5 and no work at home is much easier.

"hours that can be aligned reasonably around their own childcare needs"

You what???!!!!
I take it you didn't read the "AIBU to schedule a meeting at 9am" thread? Any teachers who popped up on there to point out we never have the luxury of doing our own school runs (and, like others, have to pay for wraparound childcare) were shot down in flames.

However it does offer certain 'perks' (long holidays, hours that can be aligned reasonably around their own childcare needs, no night shifts, good pay and t&c compared to many). I think that some teachers often seem to overlook these positives factors when they are explaining how the grass is greener elsewhere

Oh there are definitely “perks”

But I get to school at 7.15am. Very hard to get childcare for 7am. Luckily dh gets them to school in the mornings.

I’m meant to pick them up at 4pm but at least 2 days a week I have to ask dh to do it as I have to stay late.

I would never for a second suggest that teachers have it harder than others.

There is however a recruitment and retention crisis. Better working conditions and pay are sorely needed.

I have a degree in education and several years experience working in a support role and HLTA role on school. I absolutely love teaching, but once I got to the point of considering my future in the profession (ie do the PGCE to qualify and get my own class) I just could not bring myself to do it. Regretfully I left education. I was good at my job, very well regarded at my school and was offered a funded training place with a job guaranteed. But I just couldn't do it to myself and my family. I have seen so many young and enthusiastic NQTs come and then go once they realise what it's really like. We had several that only lasted one term.

Before my career in education I did have other jobs, so the pp talking to teachers as though they're naive about other professions is a little patronising in my experience.

I now work in a job that is convenient and completely stress free with no expectation to work outside my hours. I do really really miss the classroom though and if the conditions for teachers were to somehow miraculously and massively improve I would go back in a heartbeat.

I work in FE and the pressure over the last 8 months or so as Ofsted has been "imminent, bound to be next week!" has been relentless and impossible to manage. I've been in my workplace almost 15 years and I'm one of the longest serving ones - everyone else leave and I've seen more staff leave in the last few months than in the decade before. The pressure and the volume of workload is insane, and I have no idea how everyone is still there, as it's just not sustainable.