Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

Something seriously needs to be done about the poor management in schools though.

When you have a critical shortage of headteachers and a lack of experienced teachers to promote to SLT, what exactly can be done?

The bad heads I've known of just move schools if the shit really hits the fan. There's always someone willing to recruit them.

Twenty-one years at the chalk face. Left, broken, spent several years actually in bed to recover.

Teaching has a vile and bullying culture, to which victims new teachers are acclimatised during training.

@WhenSheWasBad

My view - it's not an easy job but not the hardest job out there either and does come with some decent benefits like pension and school holidays (also downsides like very little term time flexibility)

I don’t think I’ve ever heard a teacher say it is the hardest job in the world. For example I wouldn’t swap with anyone currently working in the NHS. Policing also looks very hard.

Teachers are allowed to say it’s a tough gig. That’s not a claim that it’s the hardest job known to man.

I agree. No teacher will claim it’s the hardest job. But it’s one of the few jobs that everyone seems to have an opinion on. Everyone has experienced it as a pupil or parent and many people think that because of that they know all about it. Sometimes teachers have to tell the ‘you knock off at 3 crowd’ what it’s really like. And when they do they get told to shut up because other jobs are harder.

I have no idea. I did one Head I did have who was amazing and is very well regarded, he covers a few schools now and is headhunted for new jobs all the time. He told me he thought he was actually not a great teacher but was good at the ‘other stuff’. Maybe we are expecting too much for sometime to be good at both.

I was a primary teacher and everyone said I was so lucky having the holidays off with my children. Yep I was though I soon realised I would never get to see my child in their school play or their sports day. I also spent most evenings working and many weekends to. It was never enough, school demanded more ( the bullying by SLT is shocking!), parents demanded more and my children suffered as a result. I did have some absolute wonderful parents though who really went out of their way to be helpful . Sadly in the end no-one was getting the best of me and I left. Virtually every single teacher I worked with at that school is no longer a classroom teacher and the majority were amazing teachers.
The whole education system is not working.

So if you are not a teacher just think what you can do to support the teacher doing their hardest to support your child. Sometimes just a thank you goes a long way.

I'm in my 12th year of teaching, recently made team leader. The team has 8 teachers but we have had 5 off with stress since May/June. No additional cover can be sourced so we had to merge groups to cover, it's exhausting. I have a class of 44 on Monday which is three classes in one room with just me for the whole day. My other colleague has over 50 who have to go to the gym as their classroom. I spoke for two hours last night to my manager telling her we are at breaking point, she wouldn't listen, just kept banging on about meeting targets. This is in FE so we get paid far less as the poor relations in teaching. I clocked up 22 hrs toil this week that I will never get back. I'm on just over 30k which is good where I work. I'm out as soon as possible as are at least two of my colleagues, our last year in teaching. How sad and such a waste of our experience. It's become a job with no joy with the pressure from above, parent pressure, student behaviour etc. My patience and resilience is worn down, I'm literally exhausted. Last straw this week when a student said to me that my children must feel like killing themselves having me as their Mum. No support from management when I reported it. It used to be an amazing job, it didn't feel like work! No one wants to teach now, we advertised 6 times and got two applications. Courses have had to close half way through. I can't see FE continuing unless there are radical changes but with T levels round the corner I just see it getting less sustainable. And for what it's worth I got one week's holiday over Summer, FE teach all year due to apprenticeship programmes and summer school so I don't even get the holidays!

I genuinely don't know what is happening in schools today as both my children are in their 20's so out of the school system.

What I do see every day though in my job are kids just out of school with a sense of entitlement coupled with bad number skills/grammar, what I'd consider to be the very least the general population would leave school with.

My point being that, yes we do need better teachers and we do need to retain the existing good teachers. I often wonder what the hell has happened. I didn't see this 10 years ago, so if it is funding then we need it corrected. I'm in Scotland though and we are dire now in terms of our schools.

I would say though, funding aside, all the blame can't be dumped at teachers feet. I've even had parents call me to let me know their (adult) child will be off sick.

I wouldn't be a teacher though, mostly because of the unionised culture, not for me, I prefer the private sector where I can negotiate my own pay/benefits etc.

I've come across a few excellent teachers during my kids time at school, life changing teachers. Proper inspirations.

@Classicblunder

I never see anyone saying anything of the sort! Lots of posts complaining about "teacher bashing" though

My view - it's not an easy job but not the hardest job out there either and does come with some decent benefits like pension and school holidays (also downsides like very little term time flexibility)

This^^

I think teaching is an amazing thing to do and also extremely stressful and hard work. But...I also think I hear many more complaints from teachers about their conditions and lack of respect than from any other profession.

I was on a thread recently with an incredibly stressed out and unhappy teacher. But she was adamant she didn't want to leave the profession.

I think the benefits can make it hard to leave. But there are upsides and downsides to all professions.

I've seen more complaints of teacher bashing than I've ever seen actual teacher bashing.

You could equally say "put your money where your mouth is" to unhappy teachers. If you think it's so much easier elsewhere; go for it!

I've seen more complaints of teacher bashing than I've ever seen actual teacher bashing.

Or this thread, started the other day (also deleted).

Those asserting that they never see or rarely see teacher bashing on MN should consider whether they, or the teachers who have to put up with this shit, are more likely to know what they're talking about.

@noblegiraffe but the threads are deleted because they’re so obviously goady, they’re looking for a fight so they pick a lazy stereotype and leave after two posts. They’re not realistic views of how people actually think.

Sorry, or this thread? Were there two or just the one?

I'm not getting into a competition with you, but you've just mentioned one thread which was rightly deleted where there was clearly an intention to teacher bash. You've started an entire thread to complain about teacher bashing. So far, it's at least equal and that's only using your own personal research (I haven't done any as I'm obviously less invested in the subject).

Ime I've seen more complaints about teacher bashing than actual teacher bashing. I stand by that.

And nobody is reporting your thread to have it deleted. And if they did, it would still be standing. That's the major difference between the thread you mentioned and this one.

'I never see teacher bashing on MN'

'Here are a couple of threads and a post from recent days as evidence'

'They don't count'.

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say any of these things.

I do think there is a disconnect between many teachers and the working world generally.

Teachers complaining that they have to work outside of school hours is one that always catches my attention as I don’t know a single professional who doesn’t work beyond their contractual hours so to present “taking work home” as some sort of horror unique to teachers always jars a bit.

Teaching is hard, yes, but the perks (mainly holidays, and regular working hours rather than shifts/nights) would make it more attractive to me than other tough jobs, such as social work or policing.

It's also very usual to work out of hours and during holidays in lots of jobs; not just teaching.

The thing I struggle to understand though, is when teachers say they don't get paid for the holidays. Unless I've completely misunderstood; if a teachers' starting salary is 25k then it is 25k for the year, before tax and deductions.
You don't then sign a contract for, say, 21k as you're working pro rata.
Bit weird to then try and argue "well, it's 25k a year but that's for 39 weeks, otherwise I'd be on nearer 30k".. which makes no sense.

@noblegiraffe

'I never see teacher bashing on MN'

'Here are a couple of threads and a post from recent days as evidence'

'They don't count'.

But they don’t count, they were deleted.

Sorry, is your reading and comprehension OK? Where did I say I NEVER see it. I remember your username and you are hugely goady and combative in so many threads. You need a better hobby.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say any of these things.

And yet I have posted screenshots and links.

What I do see every day though in my job are kids just out of school with a sense of entitlement coupled with bad number skills/grammar, what I'd consider to be the very least the general population would leave school with.
I teach a number of students whose entitlement is off the chart. It's getting worse, in part because of the "you can't make me do x" culture.
No I can't make you listen.
Or work.
Or do detention.
Or pass exams.
But you know what...if you did listen and do your work, you might not get detention and you might well do better in exams.

@noblegiraffe

'I never see teacher bashing on MN'

'Here are a couple of threads and a post from recent days as evidence'

'They don't count'.

Maybe posters should check out the posts from lockdown 1.

I taught live to timetable from day 1. I was struggling with my own primary children. The thread was deleted because I was jumped on and said I was a shit teacher. If anyone from any other profession called out for help for their mental health they would receive immediate support.

@motherrunner support from whom? The NHS is widely known for being terrible in relation to workers’ mental health. So are the forces, so are pretty much any public service employer. I wouldn’t say teaching is unique in that regard.

I’d say it’s unique because everyone thinks they could do it, and they would be wrong.

So if a post is deleted it never happened? Ok.

@noblegiraffe

So if a post is deleted it never happened? Ok.

Are you ok?

If a post is deleted we can asssume it’s goady trolls looking for a fight. They happen all the time, they’re not a realistic gauge of public opinion.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them.

Except for many, it just doesn't pay enough 🤷🏼‍♀️

If a post is deleted we can asssume it’s goady trolls looking for a fight

Well that's just bollocks isn't it?

realistic gauge of public opinion.

Where did I say it was a realistic gauge of public opinion. You're just making stuff up now.