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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

621 replies

noblegiraffe · 27/11/2021 11:59

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 27/11/2021 22:52

[quote Bellfor]@pumperthepumper

That's not what you said at all! You said people that go into teaching had no better option. That is simply not true. [/quote]
It’s is literally what I said, at 21:16. It was the post that kicked off this discussion:

I think it’s because of the salary. If you’re an excellent, say, chemist and have a solid undergrad, why would you choose to be a chemistry teacher instead of a pharmacist?

Bellfor · 27/11/2021 23:01

I'm not saying better pay. I'm saying better pay progression. Starting salary of £23 - £27k is a decent starting salary. The problem is that a teacher of 6 years and a teacher of 26 years could easily be earning the same.

Bellfor · 27/11/2021 23:02

And the post I'm thinking of was the "people who go into teaching are not the ones with a massive range of options.".

Sowhatifiam · 27/11/2021 23:06

Especially if that undergrad leads to more money elsewhere

No one in teaching is motivated by the money. I am sure I could have done far more lucrative things with my degree but broadly, I wanted to support/help people. I worked in the third sector for years. Now I teach. Shrugs.

Pumperthepumper · 27/11/2021 23:08

@Bellfor

I'm not saying better pay. I'm saying better pay progression. Starting salary of £23 - £27k is a decent starting salary. The problem is that a teacher of 6 years and a teacher of 26 years could easily be earning the same.
It’s the same point though. The salary for teaching isn’t tempting enough.
Bellfor · 27/11/2021 23:13

It's really not. It's about recognising experience and appreciating and paying appropriately for that experience.

Even if NQTs started on 100k, if you didn't recognise experienced teachers with adequate pay progression, there would still be difficulties with retention. People don't like being underappreciated.

Pumperthepumper · 27/11/2021 23:14

@Bellfor

It's really not. It's about recognising experience and appreciating and paying appropriately for that experience.

Even if NQTs started on 100k, if you didn't recognise experienced teachers with adequate pay progression, there would still be difficulties with retention. People don't like being underappreciated.

But we can agree that money is an issue in education?
Hercisback · 27/11/2021 23:25

The problem is around the 3-5 year mark where you're on about 32k, and realise there are other options that will pay you very similar for a lot less work. On ups3 with a TLR, teaching isn't badly paid, but stuck on m3-4 there are other more lucrative options. Especially for those who aren't fully 'committed'. (I disagree with that as an idea really, it is just a job).

Macaroni46 · 27/11/2021 23:32

@Bellfor exactly what you say except I don't even have a TA most of the time. Yet within my Year 1 class I have a child who requires 1-1 and at least 2 others who need support along with the expectation to provide interventions for all of those who are deemed to be below age related for whatever reason. Oh and change reading books, provide a stimulating learning environment and a Christmas play but don't not teach any lessons to do these things. It's a f'ing joke and I'd walk away tomorrow if I could find a different job.

Mistressiggi · 27/11/2021 23:36

It is odd Pumper that you want others to apply more self reflection yet seem unable to do that yourself.
If you work in Scotland you will know that we got a reasonable (not great, but better than we might have expected) pay deal a couple of years ago. It didn't lead to lots of happy teachers. Those who speak to me about it say their workload is the main issue for them. They would prefer a reduced workload than more pay. Basically get rid of half the crap and let us teach.
I've done this long enough to remember a time that, if not exactly crap-free, and significantly less of it. It was a different job then. I worked hard, but on things that were directly related to improving lessons for the children. Now it's just data and spread sheets and emails.

Pumperthepumper · 27/11/2021 23:40

@Mistressiggi

It is odd Pumper that you want others to apply more self reflection yet seem unable to do that yourself. If you work in Scotland you will know that we got a reasonable (not great, but better than we might have expected) pay deal a couple of years ago. It didn't lead to lots of happy teachers. Those who speak to me about it say their workload is the main issue for them. They would prefer a reduced workload than more pay. Basically get rid of half the crap and let us teach. I've done this long enough to remember a time that, if not exactly crap-free, and significantly less of it. It was a different job then. I worked hard, but on things that were directly related to improving lessons for the children. Now it's just data and spread sheets and emails.
How am I unable to do that myself? What do you mean by that?
Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss · 27/11/2021 23:40

YANBU but as a qualified teacher doing something else directly child related, I once asked on the staff room about getting back into teaching and was told I absolutely wouldn’t stand a chance as I hadn’t taught recently and should give up my job and become a TA ‘for experience’. Erm… no thanks!

If there introduced a funded return to teaching programme I imagine they’d get a few teachers back. Whether we’d stay or not is another matter. Teaching was mad 5 years ago and looks even less like the job I would love it to be now.

OFSTED hasn’t been fit for purpose for such a long time. I’d scrap it and pour the money into special needs provision.

lazylinguist · 27/11/2021 23:42

The thing that annoys me about teachers is that they think they are only ones who have a hard job.

Evidence please. Find me one example of a teacher saying that teaching is the only job that's hard.

lazylinguist · 27/11/2021 23:44

I think it’s because of the salary. If you’re an excellent, say, chemist and have a solid undergrad, why would you choose to be a chemistry teacher instead of a pharmacist?

Because people don't make career choices purely on the basis of money.

Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss · 27/11/2021 23:46

@lazylinguist

The thing that annoys me about teachers is that they think they are only ones who have a hard job.

Evidence please. Find me one example of a teacher saying that teaching is the only job that's hard.

Having done a lot of other jobs over the years as well as teaching, it’s incredibly stressful, tiring and physically demanding. There are other jobs like that too of course, but they are usually paid more.
Pumperthepumper · 27/11/2021 23:47

@lazylinguist

I think it’s because of the salary. If you’re an excellent, say, chemist and have a solid undergrad, why would you choose to be a chemistry teacher instead of a pharmacist?

Because people don't make career choices purely on the basis of money.

A lot of people do.
Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss · 27/11/2021 23:48

I’m not in teaching now, there is reason. I look back with sympathy at (the rapidly diminishing number!) colleagues who are still in the thick of it.

parentingperson · 27/11/2021 23:49

What are the top 3-4 issues for teachers and are there any logical solutions that the senior leaders should be embedding to help make life more balanced?

lazylinguist · 27/11/2021 23:50

Pay is not what teachers generally complain about. Most would far rather take a cut in workload over a pay rise.

One of the reasons teachers complain so much about the bureaucracy is not just that it's a lot of work, it's the double whammy that it's not helpful to the pupils and actually takes up time which could be spent on stuff that is useful to the pupils.

Pumperthepumper · 27/11/2021 23:53

@parentingperson

What are the top 3-4 issues for teachers and are there any logical solutions that the senior leaders should be embedding to help make life more balanced?
I’m too tired to come up with 3-4 but for me, the main one is inclusion. It’s not working, it hasn’t worked for years and all it takes is one child with needs that can’t be met in the average classroom and the education every pupil in that classroom gets takes a massive nosedive. And the solution is money towards SEN provision.
Bellfor · 27/11/2021 23:54

@parentingperson

What are the top 3-4 issues for teachers and are there any logical solutions that the senior leaders should be embedding to help make life more balanced?
Mine would be:
  1. SEN support
  2. Pointless & repetitive data
  3. Parents
  4. Pointless assessment (not all assessment, just some schools over kill of summative assessment)
Bellfor · 27/11/2021 23:56

Yes, but not the main issue. And actually if the government were to throw money at education, I'd want it to go to fund SEN support, not wages.

Bellfor · 27/11/2021 23:57

No idea why the app let's me quote some posts but not others. Angry

That ^ was for @pumperthepumper

Pumperthepumper · 27/11/2021 23:58

@Bellfor

No idea why the app let's me quote some posts but not others. Angry

That ^ was for @pumperthepumper

You can only quote a post without a quote in it already.
parentingperson · 28/11/2021 00:00

@Bellfor

Yes, but not the main issue. And actually if the government were to throw money at education, I'd want it to go to fund SEN support, not wages.
That's already cropped up a few times but I guess realistically that's unlikely to happen. We have such a massive shortage of spaces in special schools that there ends up being a high percentage of SEND pupils in mainstream, some of which have quite complex needs.

There are no winners in this scenario.