Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

Ahhhhh! Thank you! The quoting has been bugging me for months!

We have a number of pupils who would be much better served at the SEND school next door but whose parents want them in mainstream

Did you do the undergrad, out of interest?

Maths degree.

@parentingperson

Unfortunately so.

But even 5 years ago it didn't seem like as a big an issue as it is now. EHCPs (or statements then) would cover the cost of a 1:1 for those that needed it. So there must be a way to get back there? Funding for specialist schools and funding from the council to actually provide what is written in the EHCPs, including external services would be a good start.

I think that the biggest impact could be made in education would be if the government didn't judge schools and teachers on the performance of their pupils. It leads to spoon-feeding, gaming the system, and a massive distortion of the balance of effort between teachers and students into each student's qualification.

You can lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink, but current thinking is you timetable the horse for intervention sessions, give them links to every possible website that they need, monitor the work that they are (not) doing, beg them to attend catch-up classes, attend endless equine-concern meetings, get bollocked by the parent for 'picking on the horse', bash your head into a brick wall and finally accept the blame for the non-drinking horse and lose your pay rise. All while the horse isn't thirsty.

Teaching is a very difficult but also very rewarding career. Lockdown temporarily showed parents the trials of trying to keep their own children on task, let alone 30, but once the schools were opened to all this memory faded. There are lots of blowhards who declare that they could easily teach and would love the long holidays, few mention the only average salary (for graduates). I didn't want my children to follow my career - secondary school teacher - because of the increasing bureaucracy, OFSTED stress etc. When I went into teaching it was mainly just that, teaching, by the time I retired it was buried in paperwork, accountability, and so much stress. Most teachers retire in their 50s.

DH is a teacher. I also teach, but as an unqualified self employed online tutor. No way would I work as a teacher in a school! Even the lump sum to train for shortage subjects doesn't entice me. You couldn't pay me enough to put myself through that every day.

@Iheartbaby

The thing that annoys me about teachers is that they think they are only ones who have a hard job

My last job in care i could not get child care for an 8-8 shift, bank holiday, Christmas Day
I was often had to work longer that my hours
I had life and death responsibility for min wage pay
I don’t get a Christmas party paid for
I had to do many training that was on my day off
I had to work weekends
My pension is so low it’s not even worth it
I have left and it was the best choice I have ever made
Teachers are not the only ones who work hard so stop thinking they are

Admittedly I've only got this far in the thread, but where have teachers said that they think they're the only ones who have a hard job?

All those claiming that teaching isn't that bad, that teachers think they're worse off than everyone, etc, are missing the point.

If the UK has a recruitment and retention crisis, that means that teachers have gone beyond complaining about the job and are voting with their feet. The job is, apparently, really that unbearable. This is going to mess with your children's education, if it isn't already doing so. If you're a parent, you should be concerned, because if people aren't sticking at teaching for more than a few years, then it's a systemic issue, not just teachers wanting an easy life.

Have any of you read about the teacher shortage in the US? It's scary. And for what it's worth, teaching in the UK did a number on my mental health I've never experienced before or since. I love your country and hope to live there again someday, but I couldn't possibly be a teacher there again.

Admittedly I've only got this far in the thread, but where have teachers said that they think they're the only ones who have a hard job?

Not on MN.

A huge part of teachers' time is also taken up by parents. Parents who seem to believe that schools should fix everything and don't realise that their piss poor parenting is a huge part of the reason their child has issues in the first place. It's a thankless job and teachers cannot win. Blamed for not doing enough, blamed for being too heavy handed with rules. I am not surprised teachers are voting with their feet.

Actually, I’d disagree with that. I think a lot of what I believed to be ‘piss poor parenting’ when I was younger is actually SEN, diagnosed or otherwise.

A huge part of teachers' time is also taken up by parents. Parents who seem to believe that schools should fix everything and don't realise that their piss poor parenting is a huge part of the reason their child has issues in the first place

Most parents are utterly fabulous, really supportive and doing the best they can. It is really hard being a parent.
There are a few however who are a nightmare to deal with.

One kid (6 foot 2, manger management issues and a history of aggressive behaviour) called me a bitch and told me to fuck off, whilst barging past me.

Later that day I received an email asking me to call the boys parents. My heart dropped, experience has taught me to expect to be told it was my fault their son acted the way he did. Or that he didn’t, he’s an angel and I’m a liar.

That parent was so lovely, just wanted to apologise. Thank god it was the end of the day, the surprise and relief and having a pleasant conversation made me cry.

I like noble's idea but I'd go even further - I'd like to see a properly funded and whole hearted return to the educational attitudes of my youth - that education is something for life, not just an intense period up to the age of 16/18. The hollowing out of adult education so it's essentially become a rich person's hobby was completely short sighted.

Regarding SEN, which is absolutely a key issue, I feel the problem is also access to diagnosis. It is so hard to see a paediatrician in this country. I'm sure it's harder than in other developed countries. We threw thousands at diagnosis and therapies and our DD is doing well. Lucky for her. Not so lucky for those without the cash being fobbed off and (at best) sent on parenting courses.

I think the negative attitudes you're talking about are rare, thankfully, and that the majority of people recognize teaching is a hard, undervalued job made much harder by a lack of funding. I'm disgusted by the way schools are teachers are treated.

As a parent however I have and will push the school and teachers to do more for my children when and if I feel it's necessary.

That doesn't mean I don't have huge sympathy for teachers and appreciate I may be making their lives more difficult. And I certainly pick my battles and let a lot of things go that I think are way less than ideal. It's simply that my priority is to advocate for my children.

It's simply that my priority is to advocate for my children

As it should be.

I have never liked the That Parent accusation that is thrown around too lightly IMO.

@nanbread

I think the negative attitudes you're talking about are rare, thankfully, and that the majority of people recognize teaching is a hard, undervalued job made much harder by a lack of funding. I'm disgusted by the way schools are teachers are treated.

As a parent however I have and will push the school and teachers to do more for my children when and if I feel it's necessary.

That doesn't mean I don't have huge sympathy for teachers and appreciate I may be making their lives more difficult. And I certainly pick my battles and let a lot of things go that I think are way less than ideal. It's simply that my priority is to advocate for my children.

What kind of thing do you mean?

@Morvensea

It's simply that my priority is to advocate for my children

As it should be.

I have never liked the That Parent accusation that is thrown around too lightly IMO.

Me too, and I also think the communication schools have with parents is (generally!) piss poor. I include my own school and my children’s schools when I say that.

An example of a recent change that has had a significant impact on time.

In my county, previously, referrals to the community paediatrician were made by the GP. These are referrals made to request investigation into whether the child might have ASD or ADHD similar conditions. Parents and schools put forward the issues they saw and the GP made the referral. It has now been decided that schools will make the referral. Not only do we have to complete the 22 page referral form but we have to decide WHICH pathway we want investigating- and we can only choose one. So I am having to say whether I consider a child had ASD or ADHD or perhaps neurological conditions when making the referral- these are medical diagnoses which I should not have to make but do. I am nowhere near a full time SENCO and completing these referrals has a significant impact on the time I have available to do the rest of my job. So, not only am I being asked to suggest a medical condition, I am spending hours providing medical evidence!

That is absolutely crazy but I know it is true. I had to essentially diagnose our DD (I'm not even a SENCO although the wonderful SENCO at the school where I teach helped me a bit). It's Catch 22 - you have to have a good idea what's wrong to get an official person to put on a piece of paper what's wrong. Crazy! The thing that bothers me is that access to medication is only via paediatricians and how do you get that monitored properly if you can't see them?

@spanieleyes

An example of a recent change that has had a significant impact on time.

In my county, previously, referrals to the community paediatrician were made by the GP. These are referrals made to request investigation into whether the child might have ASD or ADHD similar conditions. Parents and schools put forward the issues they saw and the GP made the referral. It has now been decided that schools will make the referral. Not only do we have to complete the 22 page referral form but we have to decide WHICH pathway we want investigating- and we can only choose one. So I am having to say whether I consider a child had ASD or ADHD or perhaps neurological conditions when making the referral- these are medical diagnoses which I should not have to make but do. I am nowhere near a full time SENCO and completing these referrals has a significant impact on the time I have available to do the rest of my job. So, not only am I being asked to suggest a medical condition, I am spending hours providing medical evidence!

Absolutely agree. There is also a massive backlog after covid. I have done three of these referrals for my class already this year with no training or time. I just add it onto my evening or weekend work.

I have also supported junior colleagues to complete these forms by discussing what to put and covering their class so they can complete them as they are overwhelmed with work.

Bellfor Yes, but it's SLT making you type in those individual questions & scores from assessments. Ofsted are happy with a print out from target tracker or similar.

I don't know what target tracker is, but how does that tell children what they need to do to improve?

[quote Bagadverts]@noblegiraffe that’s madness! Having Read a number of teachers threads (and other organisations that are bureaucratic for the sake of it) I can completely believe it. I take it you already had an inkling of which students are struggling with fractions or algebra from all the marking of normal class work and mocks?[/quote]
Yes, when I mark the mocks I know which questions the class have done badly on because I've marked them.

The kid knows which questions they've done badly on because they are given back their paper.

If an individual kid has done badly on fractions but the rest of the class has done well on fractions, I'm not going to reteach fractions to the whole class. We will concentrate on things useful to the whole class and the kid will be signposted to resources to improve their knowledge of fractions elsewhere.

Any online tracking software with the NC statements that you can highlight as expected/below/exceeding as you teach or assess it. Means I can highlight everyone as expected then a quick click to change individuals as below or exceeding. Takes 2 minutes.

A bit like the old paper tick sheets when we still had levels.

So any statements that you've taught but children are below or working towards are their targets.