Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

Sorry, that should have quoted @pumperthepumper

pumperthepumper

That’s absolutely true, there isn’t. That’s why I asked, what are you being expected to do until 1am in England?

I don't work until 1am nor do I work weekends (except an hour or so Sunday evening) or much in the holidays. I think it was another poster - but I was wondering if Scotland was slightly more manageable for teachers.

@Bellfor

My first degree was in biomedical sciences. I could have used it to do graduate entry medicine, pathology, forensics, pharmaceuticals.... loads of other options. I hated lab work though. Loved the theory, so I looked at teaching. Did some volunteering in secondary and decided I preferred the younger children so did my pgce primary in ks2 and have ended up spending the majority of the last 14 years in reception or year 1 as reading/phonics lead and English co-lead even though I hated English at school! (Although I think that is part of the reason I'm good at it, because I remember the dry forced discussion in gsce English lit where you couldn't possibly disagree with the teachers viewpoint unless you wanted shouting at)

I don’t think I’m explaining this well.

You gave up a career in biomedical science to be a primary teacher. So your undergrad didn’t lead into a career related to that subject. Which is exactly my point.

@converseandjeans

pumperthepumper

That’s absolutely true, there isn’t. That’s why I asked, what are you being expected to do until 1am in England?

I don't work until 1am nor do I work weekends (except an hour or so Sunday evening) or much in the holidays. I think it was another poster - but I was wondering if Scotland was slightly more manageable for teachers.

It must be. That poster’s day looked very like mine, but I don’t work weekends or until 1am either, or in the holidays.

You said "people who go into teaching are not the ones who have a massive range of options elsewhere.".

I disagree.

I could earn a lot more elsewhere. I don't because I love my job.

@Bellfor

You said "people who go into teaching are not the ones who have a massive range of options elsewhere.".

I disagree.

I could earn a lot more elsewhere. I don't because I love my job.

Ok. I think you’re in the minority then. I’d say most people don’t start an undergrad with no intention of using it and becoming a teacher. Especially if that undergrad leads to more money elsewhere.

@pumperthepumper

Subscribing to the old "those who can't, teach" is damaging and shows your lack of respect for an entire profession.

BA Ed covers less than half of trainee teachers. Most have other degrees and even other professions and then do PGCE/SCITT/Schools Direct as a route into teaching.

People who go into teaching are not the ones who have a massive range of options elsewhere.

Speak for yourself.

I’m well aware I’d struggle to earn what I currently earn in another job.

That doesn’t make it OK for teachers to be treated badly.

Ofsted won't ask for data anymore. If you want to show off your lovely spreadsheets you have to thrust it under their noses.

Ofsted won't ask to look at spreadsheets of data, but they absolutely will ask the question 'how do students know what they need to do to improve'?

So if you can wheel out a sheet of strengths and weaknesses generated from a spreadsheet of scores typed in from assessments, Ofsted are appeased.

@noblegiraffe

People who go into teaching are not the ones who have a massive range of options elsewhere.

Speak for yourself.

I am speaking for myself, partly. But also the other people on this thread who’ve said exactly the same thing. Teaching is my second career, my undergrad (broadly, STEM) was much better paid and much more stressful - massive budgets, management responsibilities, vague working hours. Teaching meant I could lose all of that, but also a chunk of the salary.

And BA Ed covers fewer than half of teachers because the postgrad is less of a commitment, it’s less of a risk. And arguably (and I did the PDGE) easier to fall into, easier to pass and means you miss out on the benefits and focus of a four-year course.

I am speaking for myself, partly. But also the other people on this thread who’ve said exactly the same thing

But you made a massive generalisation that is incorrect.

@noblegiraffe

I am speaking for myself, partly. But also the other people on this thread who’ve said exactly the same thing

But you made a massive generalisation that is incorrect.

Where?

People who go into teaching are not the ones who have a massive range of options elsewhere

And I call bullshit generalisation based on your own experience but not mine.

@noblegiraffe

I know it happens because so many teachers have described it, but what is all the bureaucracy that they're doing?

Lately, with covid, often teachers have been expected to teach children who are isolating at home at the same time as teaching those who are in the classroom, effectively doubling workload.

Marking requirements have got more insane over the years. When I started teaching we had Y11 mocks in November, and it was two papers. Now we do full GCSE papers at the end of Y10, in November of Y11 and March of Y11, and it's three papers for maths now, not two. This is a huge amount of extra marking that goes unacknowledged.

There has also, over the years, become an increasing expectation to do 'intervention'. Spreadsheets of pupils who are failing to meet computer generated targets, where you have to detail what interventions you have put in place (often in your own time), and updated regularly with their impact (or lack thereof).

Email has made teachers more accessible to parents and so a lot more time is spent dealing with correspondence. SLT often give 'contact home' as part of a behaviour policy, forgetting that many teachers are teaching full days and don't have an office with a phone so this is not something that can be done quickly or easily.

The need for detailed feedback makes marking more complicated than it used to be.

Mental health, safeguarding and SEN. As the various support agencies have collapsed and funding has dwindled, far more now falls on the individual teacher to try to support these children. Covid has obviously made things far worse here too.

Actual teaching in the classroom feels like a very small part of it these days.

Thanks for this explanation. I can see some of it is arguably desirable, eg the opportunity for pupils to do practice papers, but the tracking of pupils who are struggling seems a waste of time which you could spend actually teaching them!

I can imagine much of parental correspondence is pointless as well and comes from parents who think their darlings are speshul. I think I've written about three emails in my life to my children's school in total for both of them.

It's outrageous that funding has been slashed for educational psychology, safeguarding and CAMHs services and that has all been pushed back onto schools, whose budgets have also been cut.

But at least Matt Hancock's relative made a nice bit of dough from tax payers even while we're slashing actual services.

@noblegiraffe

People who go into teaching are not the ones who have a massive range of options elsewhere

And I call bullshit generalisation based on your own experience but not mine.

Ok, I should have said ‘generally’. I can’t edit that post, but feel free to read ‘generally’ in it. At no point did I assume I was speaking for every single teacher in the world.

@noblegiraffe

People who go into teaching are not the ones who have a massive range of options elsewhere

And I call bullshit generalisation based on your own experience but not mine.

Did you do the undergrad, out of interest?

@noblegiraffe

Ofsted won't ask for data anymore. If you want to show off your lovely spreadsheets you have to thrust it under their noses.

Ofsted won't ask to look at spreadsheets of data, but they absolutely will ask the question 'how do students know what they need to do to improve'?

So if you can wheel out a sheet of strengths and weaknesses generated from a spreadsheet of scores typed in from assessments, Ofsted are appeased.

@noblegiraffe

Yes, but it's SLT making you type in those individual questions & scores from assessments. Ofsted are happy with a print out from target tracker or similar.

I’d say most people don’t start an undergrad with no intention of using it and becoming a teacher.
What does this even mean? I use my degree daily. In fact, any other job I'd gone into would not have used my degree, as in my subject knowledge, except in a very tangential way.
I wonder do your colleagues know you think they are pretty second rate employee material? Actually I imagine your attitude must make it pretty clear!

@Mistressiggi

I’d say most people don’t start an undergrad with no intention of using it and becoming a teacher. What does this even mean? I use my degree daily. In fact, any other job I'd gone into would not have used my degree, as in my subject knowledge, except in a very tangential way. I wonder do your colleagues know you think they are pretty second rate employee material? Actually I imagine your attitude must make it pretty clear!

It means exactly what I said - until we see teaching as a profession worth paying for, it will always be the fall back option.

It’s very frustrating having this conversation with people who claim they want to discuss the problems in education- but only if those problems don’t mean any kind of self-reflection.

@Mistressiggi

I’d say most people don’t start an undergrad with no intention of using it and becoming a teacher. What does this even mean? I use my degree daily. In fact, any other job I'd gone into would not have used my degree, as in my subject knowledge, except in a very tangential way. I wonder do your colleagues know you think they are pretty second rate employee material? Actually I imagine your attitude must make it pretty clear!

And also, why wouldn’t your undergrad have led into a job using that degree?

@pumperthepumper

Even "generally" I would disagree. Teaching is not a job you can do half heartedly. You have to want to do it to cope with the horrible bits.

Or maybe that's a big factor in the retention crisis, they haven't got their whole heart into it. Which means we need to attract better quality candidates. And how will that happen? Reduce rediculous data/admin and better pay progression.

@Bellfor

*@pumperthepumper*

Even "generally" I would disagree. Teaching is not a job you can do half heartedly. You have to want to do it to cope with the horrible bits.

Or maybe that's a big factor in the retention crisis, they haven't got their whole heart into it. Which means we need to attract better quality candidates. And how will that happen? Reduce rediculous data/admin and better pay progression.

But that’s exactly what I said. Better pay.

Pumperthepumper

The problem with the belief that teaching is the "failback option" is that it is most of the people that do this don't survive the training, let alone being in the classroom with children and teenagers.

@pumperthepumper

That's not what you said at all! You said people that go into teaching had no better option. That is simply not true.