I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

And the non-Welsh speakers give off such an unmistakable AIR of being English that a silent signal goes the entire way around the pub. It’s total nonsense.
The “exuding Englishness” is the only part of these stories I believe. You can smell the Brexit.

[quote WhenISnappedAndFarted]@Pumperthepumper One story was a campsite, one was in a shop, so not always a pub. And so what, maybe some are bollocks maybe some are true. Doesn't mean everyone is lying.[/quote]
Maybe not lying but totally mistaken.

Speaking Welsh is a joy, it's natural to speak Welsh to other Welsh speakers, why would we not?

Why speak English when we could be speaking Welsh?

Seriously, I know it was used as a secret code in the war but that's not why it exists!!!!!!

Can you not see how ridiculous the assumption that everyone speaks English until someone in a union jack tshirt walks in is?

@Pumperthepumper oh absolutely, I fully agree with you with that.

I've been to plenty of Welsh pubs personally and never experienced anything other than a warm welcome.

I've just RTFT and to me it seemed that anyone who said they experienced anything in Wales was immediately dismissed as 'that didn't happen' and of course some did sound like absolute bollocks but this shit happens everywhere not just England and it'll happen in Wales and other countries.

@Ddraigmawr I love the Welsh language, I love listening to it and would love to speak it myself! It's a beautiful language I would love to hear more of.

People may have been mistaken, just like the OP may have been mistaken. There is definitely a lot of paranoia and that doesn't help anything.

I just didn't agree with the automatic 'didn't happen'. It may have happened, it may have been a mistake but having a go at people saying there experience didn't happen but the OP's did, did seem a bit odd to me.

[quote WhenISnappedAndFarted]@Pumperthepumper oh absolutely, I fully agree with you with that.

I've been to plenty of Welsh pubs personally and never experienced anything other than a warm welcome.

I've just RTFT and to me it seemed that anyone who said they experienced anything in Wales was immediately dismissed as 'that didn't happen' and of course some did sound like absolute bollocks but this shit happens everywhere not just England and it'll happen in Wales and other countries.[/quote]
We're just tired of hearing it.

A bit like vegetarians being asked if they were in a desert island and there was only them and a chicken would they eat the chicken.

A hundred times and more.

Or hearing sheep jokes.

Or people pretending to spit a gallon of saliva while imitating what they think are Welsh words.

Very tiring.

Well you can call it nonsense but the following happened about 5 years ago.,, My husband and two of his friends (all British, but of Middle Eastern descent went into a pub in Wales driving back from a rock climbing trip (because there was nothing else open). When they went outside again, someone had purposely coined the car along both sides.

This was not “almost hostile.” It was blatant.

The difference being is that unlike OP, he does not try and extrapolate from this any stupid sweeping statements about Wales or “the Welsh.” Because this was an isolated incident. Obviously.

And the man in the train was an isolated non-incident. We don’t even know what it was he did that was “almost hostile.” Thd OP can’t even be bothered to explain.

This thread is ridiculous.

[quote WhenISnappedAndFarted]@Ddraigmawr I love the Welsh language, I love listening to it and would love to speak it myself! It's a beautiful language I would love to hear more of.

People may have been mistaken, just like the OP may have been mistaken. There is definitely a lot of paranoia and that doesn't help anything.

I just didn't agree with the automatic 'didn't happen'. It may have happened, it may have been a mistake but having a go at people saying there experience didn't happen but the OP's did, did seem a bit odd to me.[/quote]
I've no idea if the OPs perception is correct or not. I haven't engaged with that.

I just know after years of hearing the same nonsense that makes no sense at all that I'm tired of it. If you are a Welsh speaker speaking to other Welsh speakers it makes no sense to speak English unless there is a non Welsh speaker actively taking part in the conversation.

“The “exuding Englishness” is the only part of these stories I believe. You can smell the Brexit.”

WALES VOTED BREXIT!

Did you miss that?

@Ddraigmawr honestly, I get you I really do. I spend a lot of time in the football community and the amount of times I've heard 'get back in the kitchen' is boring and tiring.

It's a beautiful language and a beautiful part of the world, I know it doesn't help but I am sorry you've got to deal with all of that.

People can be unwelcoming wherever you go. But it does seem that hearing Welsh people speaking Welsh in Wales makes some people feel especially unwelcome for some reason.

@coffeecats

Well you can call it nonsense but the following happened about 5 years ago.,, My husband and two of his friends (all British, but of Middle Eastern descent went into a pub in Wales driving back from a rock climbing trip (because there was nothing else open). When they went outside again, someone had purposely coined the car along both sides.

This was not “almost hostile.” It was blatant.

The difference being is that unlike OP, he does not try and extrapolate from this any stupid sweeping statements about Wales or “the Welsh.” Because this was an isolated incident. Obviously.

And the man in the train was an isolated non-incident. We don’t even know what it was he did that was “almost hostile.” Thd OP can’t even be bothered to explain.

This thread is ridiculous.

Of course some Welsh people are arseholes. But what has your example got to do with people switching from English to Welsh?

That's what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

@Ddraigmawr I really wasn't disagreeing with that, I also don't personally agree with the ones that can tell what language someone was talking before they walked in the pub.

It was more the ones like the one with the woman who said a couple had been in a shop where they were bitching in Welsh about a man and the girlfriend could speak Welsh and understood every word. The poster was piled on with 'didn't happen', 'lies' etc and yes it may have been a lie but it may also not have been a lie.

OP you won’t get people to agree with you about this on MN and for what it’s worth YANBU

@coffeecats

“The “exuding Englishness” is the only part of these stories I believe. You can smell the Brexit.”

WALES VOTED BREXIT!

Did you miss that?

Actually, Gwynedd, the most Welsh speaking part of Wales, voted remain.

I have worked with people who are bilingual- There is no reason to switch languages- .so if i was sat there and some decided to ensure i couldnt listen in by speaking welsh (lets face it, its like gaelic in scotland) i would be paranoid very different to a couple of spanish kids on a school trip as english is first language in the UK,

@theremustonlybeone

I have worked with people who are bilingual- There is no reason to switch languages- .so if i was sat there and some decided to ensure i couldnt listen in by speaking welsh (lets face it, its like gaelic in scotland) i would be paranoid very different to a couple of spanish kids on a school trip as english is first language in the UK,

Wow, the ignorance! There are plenty of people who grew up with Welsh as a first language, are you unaware of this?

And even if it's not someone's first language, why shouldn't they have a private conversation in any language they like? They owe some random stranger who's earwigging on their conversation on the train exactly nothing!

@theremustonlybeone

I have worked with people who are bilingual- There is no reason to switch languages- .so if i was sat there and some decided to ensure i couldnt listen in by speaking welsh (lets face it, its like gaelic in scotland) i would be paranoid very different to a couple of spanish kids on a school trip as english is first language in the UK,

It isn’t first language for everyone, you know. How many languages do you speak?

‘Actually, Gwynedd, the most Welsh speaking part of Wales, voted remain.’

So what - loads of areas of England voted Remain. Huge swathers of I t. Look at the London vote for starters.

The fact is, Wales, as a country, voted Brexit.

@coffeecats

‘Actually, Gwynedd, the most Welsh speaking part of Wales, voted remain.’

So what - loads of areas of England voted Remain. Huge swathers of I t. Look at the London vote for starters.

The fact is, Wales, as a country, voted Brexit.

Scotland didn’t, and we still have to suffer it.

I have to say, OP, you are being a tad sensitive. Try being a Jerrias speaker travelling with a friend on a train in the UK! Welsh is mainstream compared to Jerrias! People think we're talking French... except we're not... and yet I've never felt the hostility you seem to be saying on this thread. People are wary of what they don't understand, but they don't mean to be hostile or offensive. Maybe just try celebrating your wonderful minority language (and yes, it is, compared to the rest of the UK) and give a positive view of native Welsh speakers on Mumsnet! (Just like I hope I'm giving a positive view of native Jerrias speakers on mumsnet )

We are all hateful xenophobes in England. Also narcissists so the non Welsh speaking chap will have assumed you were talking about him.

All 60 fucking million of us,? What a twatty comment

You've just unwittingly demonstrated how pervasive the "all Britain is English, & I demand you speak English if you are in proximity to an English stranger" mentality is @Allycott.

The UK does not consist of 60 million English people.
Think about it, check your work, & get back to us, yeah?

I've never heard Jerriais spoken. Do you speak it with a French accent, or like no other accent?

The “exuding Englishness” is the only part of these stories I believe. You can smell the Brexit.

Yup @hotmeatymilk
Stamping around like entitled assholes you can't be bothered, or don't even consider, the simple courtesy of learning how to say "hello" in Welsh on entering a Welsh premises, then whinging about perceived rudeness from people who are committing the grave offence of speaking their native tongue in their native land ...

Then lecturing OP & PP about how in England you MUST speak only English, because ... eh, I dunno, Reasons ...

Telling that not one of those PP have been back to deny that they expect to speak English when they are sunning themselves in foreign climes. The double standard is a built-in feature of the stench of Brexit you reference though, so plus ca change ...

@theremustonlybeone

I have worked with people who are bilingual- There is no reason to switch languages- .so if i was sat there and some decided to ensure i couldnt listen in by speaking welsh (lets face it, its like gaelic in scotland) i would be paranoid very different to a couple of spanish kids on a school trip as english is first language in the UK,

But Welsh is OP's first language

Why must speakers of other languages pander to eavsdroppers?

“Scotland didn’t, and we still have to suffer it.”

Yes exactly.

Wales was one of the regions in the EU that had received the highest levels of EU funding. Yet still, they voted Brexit in a mind-boggling turn of events. And some Welsh farmers were then shocked that there would be new tariffs on lamb. exports.