I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

Most English people aren't bilingual and just don't get it.

When chatting with people, there's no concious switch to another language, you just go back to what's comfortable. My friends would find it absolutely absurd if I tried to start talking to them in the language of the country where we live. It's just not how we communicate with each other.

Would they be rude if they were French or Italian?
Possibly. I've been told off for speaking Italian!

@TheAntiGardener

He’s not to know that you ‘feel more comfortable’ talking in Welsh.

This is the problem in a nutshell - pure ignorance about what it’s like to speak more than one language, and it has been evidenced over and over again on this thread. I’m not sure why a stranger’s ignorance is op’s problem.

This whole thread really. Ignorant English people that have only ever spoken English.

@coffeecats

Yes I’m quite well thanks. Here’s the OP’s comment about ‘deep England’ -

“I used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England”

So “deep England” is apparently Birmingham. One can only imagine the struggles faced by someone from Chester when travelling to Birmingham. It must be such a culture shock. A real odyssey by rail.

Don’t come to London whatever you do OP. There’s allsorts on the tube. Some of them may not look very friendly. Best not to open your mouth.

Did you miss the laughing face after 'deep' England. And yes, I went to university in London. I didn't however speak Welsh when there not knowing any other Welsh speakers, so have no experience of speaking anything else in England other than English. As you were..

*in London
Obviously not England

@Autumndays123 how did she learn Welsh?

@ChargingBuck I wish you were my real life friend!

@CounsellorTroi

And parents send their children to Welsh medium schools purely so that they can learn to be exclusionary and be rude about the English without them knowing.

Also Welsh speakers when with other Welsh speakers in pubs in wales with Welsh speaking staff only ever speak English until an English person comes in.

However, that shit about what we women outh to be and how we ought to behave did not originate with us.

I agree. @CaptSkippy

@alexdgr8

it is considered rude to switch like this because it excludes other people. he probably thought you two were being hostile towards him. this is not a new concept, i'm surprised you have not come across it before. i don't think it is anything to do with xenophobia, just a lack of social grace, or maturity. if you had boarded speaking welsh, and continued the same throughout, that would be different. but to switch is excluding, yet you ascribe hostility to him. turn around.

They spoke English to the conductor, then switched to Welsh to talk to each other. We used to go to a French deli. The staff spoke French to each other but English to the customers. Were they suppose to speak English to each other?

This just sounds like a "let's bash the English" thread.

@Mamamia7962

This just sounds like a "let's bash the English" thread.

You're just ignoring the Welsh bashing then?

🙄

Maybe you've experienced what it's like for English speaking people who go to Wales, when the language suddenly changes from English to Welsh when English speakers are around.

Was he staring because he was trying to work out what language you were speaking and was actually interested? Or maybe he spoke Welsh and understood every word?

This thread is funny.

OP: This thing happened. I'm Welsh and this man displayed hostility towards me.
Some posters : OMG THAT'S AWFUL, THE ENGLISH ARE ALL THICK XENOPHOBES.
Other posters: This thing happened, some Welsh people displayed hostility.
Some posters: LIKE FUCK DID YOU, NO WAY DID THAT HAPPEN.

@Mamamia7962

This just sounds like a "let's bash the English" thread.

Au contraire

@Texasfucked - you're welcome!

OP - I think you have got your answer.

Speaking Welsh to secretly and maliciously talk about other people, whilst you are in North Wales (or even Chester or borders) is a very high risk strategy - as many people understand Welsh even if they don't speak it. That's why most people don't do it!! (I am not saying it has never happened, because there are occasional idiots everywhere.)

I'm really shocked at this thread, Welsh is a beautiful language and I would like to speak it better.

I know a chippy in Portree, on the Isle of Skye where the two brothers who run it speak Gaelic to each other while working but English while serving customers. Is that rude?

More like bash monoglots who think everyone should speak English @Mamamia7962

“I went to university in London“

Presumably you met people who speak just about every language going then?

Did they report “hostility?” Because surely that’s a more reliable guide to “what it’s like in England” than one individual man on one train journey?

For the record, I’ve been here 20 years and never reported hostility as you describe.

My husband speaks Arabic and does occasionally when out and about eg. if someone phones him. Where would he stand out more, do you think? A pub in Wales or a pub in Birmingham / London? Hmmmm...

When his car was purposefully coined while parked outside a pub in “deepest” Wales, did he assume this was because he looks as though he might speak Arabic and this is “what it’s like in Wales?” Or because ... some people (everywhere) are wankers?

@Linning

I find some people on this thread so weird.

My native language is French though I speak English and a few other languages fluently.

If in a big group of people I know and/or I am interacting with I will use the common language (which isn’t necessarily the local language and is usually English) but if I am on public transportation and talking to a friend, I will speak in the language we fancy speaking in and that work best for us. I wouldn’t speak English with a French friend just because I am sitting in a subway in England sitting across from English speaking people who might want to eavesdrop and ensure I am not speaking about them. How odd.

I have met many many British and Americans in my time abroad and have NEVER seen two English speakers speaking the local language when abroad together even if they know it and would (potentially) speak it to the locals.

Most native English speakers seem to have this very weird obsession with people speaking English around them whether in an English speaking country or not as to not be rude. We already have to learn it as kids so as to be inclusive (when English speaking countries simply don’t put as much effort into learning new languages) so it’s extremely irritating when people imply speaking your native language with someone of the same country as you is rude even though nobody else is involved in that conversation.

I already regularly have to speak English to Spanish friends (when I am fluent in Spanish) just to include the one English person who might only speak English so there is no way I will speak English when I don’t have to just so strangers I am not addressing can feel included in a conversation they have no reason to listen to or partake in.

Yes, it's almost like English is the proper language of everyone by right, and others are unnecessarily self indulgent.

If I wanted a private conversation with s friend in a public place, damn right I'd use a more private language.

Very sorry to all the eavesdroppers whose feelings it might hurt.

I'm welsh and never had a problem in England (10 years now)
The only thing I've ever experienced is friendly banter between me and my friends on rugby days!

Also, literally every welsh person I know speaks English just as fluently.

When younger I experienced French people talking about me in French and assuming I couldn't understand them (on both occasions I called them on it). If it has ever happened in Wales, then I have been blissfully unaware!!

@Landof, Until for example, they have a stroke or dementia or any condition where they lose their capacity for a second language.

It's an issue if you are in a hospital with no speakers of your mother tongue.

I am insulted that someone suggests that I switch to a second language to converse with someone I normally speak to in our mother tongue.

@mamas12

Wow So people the whole world over all speak English until you walk in then they switch to their native language just to talk about you? That’s arrogance right there, please show some respect to multi lingual people especially to the original inhabitants of Prydain (Britain)

I've been to lots of places abroad and no ones ever changed from English to another language.... except in Wales. As I've said, I don't know if it was to talk about me, but I do know it was to exclude me and it felt quite hostile. And according to this thread, I'm not the only person it's happened to.

o bydded i'r hen iaith barhau