I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

Also I think someone made the point it tends to be monolingual people who feel excluded. I used to work for a bank in France and obviously would talk to colleagues in French, including British ones as we were working with other French people. But out with other English, we would always talk in English because it’s so much easier to talk in your native language. We’d switch all the time, speaking French if we needed to ask for something and switch to English. We never have a thought to other French people sitting nearby that they would be interested in what we had to say.

I'm guessing all the people who have a problem with this are monolingual!

If you'd finished your conversation with him, how did you pick up any hostility? Presumably he was just getting on with his journey and you were getting on with yours?

If you were talking to your friend in Welsh and then kept firing off sidelines in English to him every so often, of course he's going to feel like he's at the bottom of the pile in a conversation.

‘ Oh and yeah, it was rude (IMO) to switch to Welsh just like that, when you started off speaking English . Why switch? ‘

And there you have your answer! There are a lot of English people who have the attitude- you’re in England, speak English!
I’ve always found it bizarre…

So .. just to be clear... This guy didn't actually do anything. He just looked at you funny.

Lol I think the pubs I’ve frequented have missed out on the memo. Not a single group switched to welsh when they saw me walk in. Infact they went the other way and switched to English.

It;s actually horrible to sit next to or opposite people jabbering away in a language you don't understand.

'jabbering away' wow fucking hell. So many of you are so nasty on here. No one has to speak a language around you that you're familiar with just to keep you comfortable. Who the hell are you???

Is it maybe all the same pub?

Yes, it's called The Paranoid Pony

I'm gonna mute this thread now as some posts are giving me the rage and I just can't believe some of the responses.

@KiwiDramaQueen

I can’t even read through all this. What a load of insulated Little Englanders there are on here.

No strangers on a train are obliged to converse with each other in a language you can understand.

Absolutely gobsmacking level of entitlement. Get over yourselves.

!!! So entitled it's actually quite disgusting

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls

Why switch? Because I was having a chat with my friend in our native language??? Should we do it in English so that strangers on a train in Birminham don't think we're talking about them. Really

Of course not.

I wouldn't carry on speaking French or German on a train in France or Germany, why should you?

The man was an Anglo-centric idiot.

@Pumperthepumper
I know! I wonder where in South Wales Tittyfilarious81 found the density of Welsh speakers to fill pubs and shops

Far too many English speakers seem to think that because you CAN speak English. you should if there is anyone English around you. This is how minority languages are lost!

Another post I completely agree with

@pumerthepumper It is not a story it is what happened where we stayed 2019 at a park dean . Im not paranoid either it was quite an obvious change and that was entirely up to them . My point was in that situation it did seem purposeful but in ops situation I would have thought nothing of it

I'm Welsh, my whole family are Welsh and I can categorically say I have never ever been anywhere in the world where natives are so rude/downright bordering xenophobic than in Wales. I can hold a basic conversation in Welsh and thats about it. My whole life I was told everywhere from my workplace to the supermarkets that I should speak better Welsh. I've had dozens of people turn away from me and scowl because I speak to them in English. People ask me why am I loving here if I don't speak Welsh and a firm favourite 'saying' when you tell someone in Wales you can understand Welsh but not speak it is 'so you have the skills of my dog then'. Truly awful. One of the reasons I moved away as soon as I could

@MrsLargeEmbodied

perhaps he wanted to join in your conversation?

So what??!!!! Argh I'm getting so annoyed. No one is entitled to make conversation with strangers on a train. They shouldn't avoid speaking in their mother tongue just in case some random what's to talk to then

Can't* understand

@MythicalBiologicalFennel I mentioned 1 situation I experienced with a large group sat next to us not that everyone did it .

I live and work in a multicultural environment so I am very used to hearing people speak in other languages. But in your situation, having been friendly with a atranger, I can understand it would make someone feel excluded if you switched. You had set up a sociable vibe and then suddenly changed it. It is polite to continue to speak in the language the person you originally included in your conversation speaks. Especially on a train where you are seated very close together. It suggests you have had enough of them, at the very least.

Also, my child's primary school had 'Welsh Monitors' who were a male and female from each year whose sole purpose was to 'catch' other children talking English on the playground. Those children were then reported and punished. I think people would be surprised if they knew the extent of the coercion involved in Welsh schools to increase the Welsh speaking population. Of course, as children were routinely told English was naughty, my child, who was perhaps not as Welsh as some of the others, despite being able to speak it fluently, was mercilessly bullied. Called an English this and an English that. Truly awful

@Autumndays123

Also, my child's primary school had 'Welsh Monitors' who were a male and female from each year whose sole purpose was to 'catch' other children talking English on the playground. Those children were then reported and punished. I think people would be surprised if they knew the extent of the coercion involved in Welsh schools to increase the Welsh speaking population. Of course, as children were routinely told English was naughty, my child, who was perhaps not as Welsh as some of the others, despite being able to speak it fluently, was mercilessly bullied. Called an English this and an English that. Truly awful

I’m sorry I don’t believe you.

My daughter works in a hotel in Guernsey. Apart from her and one other, the staff are from two non English speaking countries (lots and lots of rivalry and bitterness between the staff groups too)

The rules state that English is to be spoken in public areas, but this seems to be ignored a lot. My daughter gets paranoid that she’s being talked about, and this isn’t helped that her name is a commonly used word in one of the languages!

I do think it looked rude.

So .. just to be clear... This guy didn't actually do anything. He just looked at you funny.

Dirty looks and staring etc are micro aggressions, the same as if a man was doing it to a woman because they weren't doing what he wants them to do.

This is what non white English people experience everyday, what the OP describes is how 'foreigners' are made to feel.

i went to a pub in mid/north wales, and they started singing Hey ho, its off to work we go

actually we went to a very Irish pub in north london, and the room stopped dead as we walked in, my dh pretended he knew someone and the voices started again.
they eventually asked him who he knew
You had to be there!

The point I'm making is he may well have changed after you switched languages OP, but I would think that is very mild compared to how many, many Welsh people (specifically North Wales) treat those who they don't consider 'Welsh enough'

I think it comes down to your fluency in English. Someone for whom English is clearly not their native language switching to their mother tongue is perfectly understandable (or going between the two). Two fluent English speakers suddenly switching to a foreign language looks like they are saying something they don't want others to understand. DS and I were discussing this exact dilemma the other day - he's bilingual French/English at an English university (sounds native in both languages). He's more used to speaking French socially after growing up in France, but says when he meets other French people at university he feels uncomfortable speaking French in mixed company because it feels like he's excluding others (and because that's exactly what he would do if he didn't want others to understand what he was saying). Speaking English to his English granny in France does not feel so excluding because she quite clearly in not a French speaker. Context is everything. What you did with the guy on the train looked rude - even if you didn't intend it to.