Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

999 replies

Builtthiscityonsausagerolls · 25/11/2021 21:29

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

OP posts:
Whatafustercluck · 26/11/2021 07:16

Had you previously been speaking to your friend in English op? If so, he may have thought it was done deliberately to exclude him.

My sister used to live in Wales. She loved it there, wonderful scenery, met some lovely people. But she does recall quite often walking into pubs and the conversation switching from English to Welsh.

If this happened on a train I don't think it would bother me. I'd probably most likely sit there in awe of someone who was bilingual. I love hearing other languages spoken and always try to learn a few key words/ phrases when abroad out of courtesy.

But context is everything in this instance.

Offmyfence · 26/11/2021 07:16

Apologies @MythicalBiologicalFennel my mistake!

Good for you campaigning for the welsh language!

My other posts are all behind the OP speaking Welsh.

ldontWanna · 26/11/2021 07:16

@MrsLargeEmbodied

perhaps he wanted to join in your conversation?
OP doesn't owe anyone her time,attention and conversation. Especially not some random on a train.
Offmyfence · 26/11/2021 07:17

@MrsLargeEmbodied

perhaps he wanted to join in your conversation?
Maybe he did, but he's not entitled to.
hotmeatymilk · 26/11/2021 07:24

You seem to be imagining it.
You didn’t talk to this guy at all - yet you noticed him enough to see ‘friendly smiles’ and then hostility? What a lot of observation!
It’s not a wild amount of observation really, is it. She’s noticed the passenger opposite her, and clocked some awareness of his demeanour. She’s not getting recruited to MI6 off that: it’s a fairly standard “woman on a train” threat assessment that most of us do subconsciously, and she’s only reporting it here and thus elevating it to a conscious assessment because of a specific event.

And is it really beyond your realm of experience to feel hostility/distaste/disapproval/intimidation/whatever from random men conveyed purely through body language? What a blessed life you lead! And all the other posters on this thread who are suddenly in denial about this even being a possibility. Because men are so nice! And never hostile! As a group it’s definitely the characteristic they’re most known for.

Sh05 · 26/11/2021 07:24

We used to get this attitude and hostility when we were children in primary school. It was drilled into us by the teachers that under no circumstances were we to speak in our native language in school, not even on the playground. That was in the 80s.
There are still pockets of. People who express this hostility and I live in Bolton where there's a huge number of people from all over the world.
I find languages fascinating and besides English and Gujarati speak 3 other languages plus understand a 4th.

Pumperthepumper · 26/11/2021 07:29

Why is it always a pub in Wales where everyone suddenly switches to Welsh when the English rock up?

Sosososotired · 26/11/2021 07:30

I think the responses you've had on here say it all really

rwalker · 26/11/2021 07:31

To notice his so called body language you must of been looking at him .

So from his point of view you looked at him then changed language the only conclusion I would of come to if I were him is that you were taking about me .

Just comes across as extremely rude to me .

Dilbertian · 26/11/2021 07:32

@Alaimo

I'm a non-native English speaker but have mostly lived in bigger cities so when i speak my native language people probably just assume I'm a tourist.

In my experience is only monolingual (English) speakers who equate speaking in your own language with being gossiped about. Most people i know who speak more than 1 language understand that sometimes it's just easier to speak in your native language.

This us very much my experience, too.
GnomeDePlume · 26/11/2021 07:33

I dont think this is something unique to the English.

When we lived in the Netherlands DD was told not to speak to her native English speaking friend in English because it excluded the other non English speakers. DD hadnt thought about it as she was bilingual. She and her friend reverted to speaking to each other in Dutch.

Also in the Netherlands, the teachers would speak to each other in English if they didnt want the children to listen in. DD2 (reception age) was asked to forget that she understood what they were saying as she had been providing simultaneous translation to the rest of the class. This was discovered when the whole reception class was aware of a bit of teacher gossip!

ldontWanna · 26/11/2021 07:33

The mental gymnastics some people will do to make sure OP is the unreasonable one.

It's either all in her head or she deserved it. Hmm

Subbaxeo · 26/11/2021 07:35

@MsDidoTwite

Rude to switch language if he’d been included in the conversation to that point. I’ve lived and worked n Chester for years. Full of scousers😊 and everyone speaks English; there’s a strong welsh speaking contingent on the Mold/Wrecsam side and obviously down into north Wales. It’s got more Welsh there in the last 20 years.IMO Btw I can speak good conversational Welsh, and still feel discriminated against in certain parts of Wales. I confess to taking some guilty pleasure in watching people’s reactions when I switch from English to Welsh but I only do it when they’re being racist about me because they assume I don’t know what they’ve said.
So Wales has got more Welsh?🤣
Tittyfilarious81 · 26/11/2021 07:36

I dont think I'd mind in the situation you describe I'd think nothing of it , however on several occasions over the years I've visited south Wales there have been times especially in pubs and shops where people speak in English and as soon as they know you arnt local switch to Welsh which I do find rude

MrsLargeEmbodied · 26/11/2021 07:36

tbh it was one man op. no great shakes perhaps?

Texasfucked · 26/11/2021 07:37

My sister used to live in Wales. She loved it there, wonderful scenery, met some lovely people. But she does recall quite often walking into pubs and the conversation switching from English to Welsh.

Nooooooooooo

Please, please stop this

It shows a level of ignorance and egocentrism I just can't understand

Why, why why?

Do people think Welsh was invented just to piss off English people or something?

It's an ancient language steeped in history and culture. There's a rich literary world. And fun chatty nonsense with English words thrown in.

Please, stop being so offensive and demeaning.

maddiemookins16mum · 26/11/2021 07:37

Yabu

Tabbacus · 26/11/2021 07:39

I dont think this is something unique to the English.

Of course it isn't, but some on here will go to great lengths to paint English people as the worst.

I speak 3 languages fluently, from my experience, around the globe, is that actively engaging someone in a conversation (suggests this was the case by mentioning he was friendly) and then switching up and noticing their demeanour enough to make comment so probably looking over whilst speaking is different to speaking in a different language; or speaking a few broken, basic words and then reverting to another language. I think it's odd how some view speaking another language rude, but I think people will react to something like that even if not consciously. It is also subjective, he came over 'hostile', but he could no longer engage in sunny conversation so what was he supposed to do? Sit there grinning to himself?

hotmeatymilk · 26/11/2021 07:40

So from his point of view you looked at him then changed language the only conclusion I would of come to if I were him is that you were taking about me .
Is it really the only conclusion? You only have to expand your imagination a bit to find other conclusions, such as “two people, who happened to have noticed my presence on this public transport rather than staring at the floor so as not to accidentally look at a stranger, prefer to converse in their shared first language”.

Tittyfilarious81 · 26/11/2021 07:40

@Pumperthepumper

Why is it always a pub in Wales where everyone suddenly switches to Welsh when the English rock up?
I have experienced this a few times at a holiday park for example large group next to us chatting in English for ages when my daughter started playing with. 1 if the kids the mum turned around and said something to me about my little girls dress when I answered her in my northern accent she looked unimpressed and literally started chatting to the group again everyone gave a little glance at us and all started talking in Welsh the rest of the time
pinkstinks · 26/11/2021 07:40

mae'r edau hon yn ffycin ysgytwol...

Pumperthepumper · 26/11/2021 07:41

@Tittyfilarious81

I dont think I'd mind in the situation you describe I'd think nothing of it , however on several occasions over the years I've visited south Wales there have been times especially in pubs and shops where people speak in English and as soon as they know you arnt local switch to Welsh which I do find rude
Here’s another one!

Is it maybe all the same pub?

Pumperthepumper · 26/11/2021 07:42

@Tittyfilarious81 That sounds like an incredibly unlikely story, and if it’s true, would indicate your paranoia more than anything else.

MargotMoon · 26/11/2021 07:43

He was a stranger, of course you should speak whatever language you want to your friend.

If I was in another country with a friend and spoke to a conductor and native stranger in their language I would immediately switch back to English afterwards, I wouldn't carry on speaking Spanish, or whatever, for their benefit!

It's the English sense of entitlement that everyone speaks English!

(I'm English born and bred, btw)

PinkMochi · 26/11/2021 07:43

I echo what pp have said. You spoke English then switched to Welsh. He probably thought you were talking about him. His “hostility” might actually be paranoia, similar to how you were paranoid he was being “hostile.” The switch in languages seemed like you were hiding your words from him. He might not have cared if he only heard you speak Welsh.

I say this as a mixed race/biracial and bilingual woman.