To think taking a baby to Parliament is ridiculous?

[iawbuwes]

Stella Creasy MP taking her baby to the Commons - I think it is utterly ridiculous.

Everyone else has to find childcare. Labour have lost the plot and don’t seem to care what people think (I say this as a life long Labour vote who cannot stomach voting for Labour as it now is). Parliament even have a nursery! www.parliament.uk/about/working/nursery/

@forinborin

So because you suffered, future women must also? What about men's careers, are they at the expense of their children? We are specifically discussing women here, no? But everything is equally applicable to men. I of course don't want women to suffer but I want them to be realistic. Bringing a baby to work and insisting you can do it all simultaneously is not a solution. I absolutely cannot see what is to be applauded here.

She is not insisting she can do it all, is is highlighting the need for appropriate cover when MPs can not attend, including but not limited to maternity leave, illness, surgery, chemo etc. Are you being deliberately obtuse? The point has seemingly gone over your head on multiple occasions and not once have addressed the actual issue.

@forinborin

I am a working mother. I don't understand the point she's trying to make. I don't like the message that a full-time job with lots of responsibility can be done in parallel to looking after the needs of a 3 month old baby without any childcare. Because it cannot, and this message doesn't help working mothers at all.

Agree with @forinborin

I think MPs should have maternity / paternity leave and pay, and then arrange proper childcare, like everyone else

Working FT while caring for a baby is not feasible

She can afford formula, I'd imagine. Most of mothers returning to work stop breastfeeding. Not ideal, but not terrible either - some compromises must be made.
Not in this case. She turned up to work and did her job. No cost, no fuss, no disruption, no compromises needed. Furthering the cause of women in the workplace is the opposite of the race to the bottom that you seem to be proposing @forinborin.

I think MPs should have maternity / paternity leave and pay, and then arrange proper childcare, like everyone else

But that’s the point isn’t it? MP’s can have maternity leave but with that their constituents are left without representation.

She is not insisting she can do it all, is is highlighting the need for appropriate cover when MPs can not attend, including but not limited to maternity leave, illness, surgery, chemo etc. Are you being deliberately obtuse? The point has seemingly gone over your head on multiple occasions and not once have addressed the actual issue.
I am sorry if I sound obtuse because I cannot see what is stopping her from dropping her baby off in the nursery and present for her job just as any other mother does instead of bringing a baby along. It is not that she cannot attend, it is that she does not want to. And fair enough, it is hard to put a small baby into a nursery. Many women quit at this point, and it's quite understandable. There's no magic solution, unfortunately.

Illness and chemotherapy I agree, there has to be a solution, or solutions - I'd imagine that they would be different for a long-term sick leave and a one off absence. But it is a completely different topic, no?

@forinborin

She is not insisting she can do it all, is is highlighting the need for appropriate cover when MPs can not attend, including but not limited to maternity leave, illness, surgery, chemo etc. Are you being deliberately obtuse? The point has seemingly gone over your head on multiple occasions and not once have addressed the actual issue. I am sorry if I sound obtuse because I cannot see what is stopping her from dropping her baby off in the nursery and present for her job just as any other mother does instead of bringing a baby along. It is not that she cannot attend, it is that she does not want to. And fair enough, it is hard to put a small baby into a nursery. Many women quit at this point, and it's quite understandable. There's no magic solution, unfortunately.

Illness and chemotherapy I agree, there has to be a solution, or solutions - I'd imagine that they would be different for a long-term sick leave and a one off absence. But it is a completely different topic, no?

There is a solution, apologies its not magical but boringly straightforward. Allowing voting by proxy or online which has been previously allowed when it's suited men.

Maternity leave is a long term absence.

Really there is no opportunity for full cover for maternity leave for MP's. So any attempt to draw parallels with employed working mothers falls down.

In which case online debate/voting should be considered for specified circumstances - particularly as this will also benefit those suffering with ill health/disabilities.

@TooBigForMyBoots

She can afford formula, I'd imagine. Most of mothers returning to work stop breastfeeding. Not ideal, but not terrible either - some compromises must be made. Not in this case. She turned up to work and did her job. No cost, no fuss, no disruption, no compromises needed. Furthering the cause of women in the workplace is the opposite of the race to the bottom that you seem to be proposing *@forinborin*.

That's exactly the point I am trying to make - no, showing to work with a baby strapped to her to do her job is not furthering the cause of women in the workplace. There's a vet (outside of the UK) who recently got celebrated for doing her job (including operating on animals) with a newborn baby in a sling. I don't want this to gradually become the new normal. After the lockdown it already is assumed that it is ok to work full time and home-school full time in parallel, women complained of course but eventually just did it.

Maternity and illness have the same outcome - long term absence.
It’s disingenuous to pretend that most women in UK put 13 week olds in nurseries. They just don’t in the vast majority and for good reason. We also have protections which mean most women don’t have to in order to keep their job. MPs should be able to take maternity leave and have proper cover. She isn’t asking for special treatment. She is asking for the same as everyone else in the country. This policy would then apply to any absence for necessary reasons such a long term illness.

She was on Lorraine Kelly today, she was saying others had brought babies in she didn't see it as a huge issue baby was in sling just 13 weeks and she had constitute business she wanted to address and wouldn't dream of taking her toddler to the HoC. As I and others have said she doesn't have a regular job she isn't working in an office or supermarket she doesn't have cover to attend parliament for her.

I don't want this to gradually become the new normal

Then may I suggest that you’re focussing on the wrong thing.

The argument isn’t about whether women should be able to bring a small baby to a workplace but about how to support them to continue their careers without impacting either their baby or their role responsibilities. The solution isn’t, or shouldn’t be, pick one - baby or career as you seem to be suggesting.

@Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss

Maternity and illness have the same outcome - long term absence. It’s disingenuous to pretend that most women in UK put 13 week olds in nurseries. They just don’t in the vast majority and for good reason. We also have protections which mean most women don’t have to in order to keep their job. MPs should be able to take maternity leave and have proper cover. She isn’t asking for special treatment. She is asking for the same as everyone else in the country. This policy would then apply to any absence for necessary reasons such a long term illness.

She is in the same position as any self-employed mother really. Not "everyone else" in the UK has a well paid maternity leave. She's actually in a very privileged position compared to most.

That's exactly the point I am trying to make - no, showing to work with a baby strapped to her to do her job is not furthering the cause of women in the workplace.
Of course it is. It shows that becoming a mother doesn't mean you can't do your job.

...I don't want this to gradually become the new normal.
It is already quite common with self employed mothers. And some fathers.

Certain jobs are inevitably all encompassing. I would never dream of standing as an MP while intending to have a child during the relevant parliamentary term, just as I wouldn’t accept a role as CEO or non-exec director of a large company or certain other jobs.

The reality is that you can’t do everything, so life requires some degree of compromise.

I deliberately declined a promotion until my children were a bit older, as I knew I couldn’t devote time to them and give the new role the time and focus my colleagues and the wider business deserved. To do otherwise would have been massively selfish. I’d be similarly disappointed if my MP decided she wanted to take maternity leave or to take a child to her work.

@Cornettoninja

I don't want this to gradually become the new normal

Then may I suggest that you’re focussing on the wrong thing.

The argument isn’t about whether women should be able to bring a small baby to a workplace but about how to support them to continue their careers without impacting either their baby or their role responsibilities. The solution isn’t, or shouldn’t be, pick one - baby or career as you seem to be suggesting.

Well, for some positions it is impossible, as simple as that - not due to patriarchy, but due to the nature of the job itself.

@TooBigForMyBoots

That's exactly the point I am trying to make - no, showing to work with a baby strapped to her to do her job is not furthering the cause of women in the workplace. Of course it is. It shows that becoming a mother doesn't mean you can't do your job.

...I don't want this to gradually become the new normal.
It is already quite common with self employed mothers. And some fathers.

Becoming a mother doesn't mean you can't do your job. Becoming a carer for your children does mean that you cannot do your job at the same time.

If men are able to become parents and have a young family while working in these positions, then it is due to patriarchy.

I couldn't think of anything more natural, taking a young baby into parliament where decision making happens. Parliament should be representative of the whole population: age, gender, occupation, ethnicity, family. It sets the scene for compassion and realistic thinking.

@NamechangeApril21

I think you’re conflating patrimony and personal choice. I decided to be the main carer for my children.

@cheshirewife I was replying to forinborn.

Cornettoninja

I don't want this to gradually become the new normal

^Then may I suggest that you’re focussing on the wrong thing.

The argument isn’t about whether women should be able to bring a small baby to a workplace but about how to support them to continue their careers without impacting either their baby or their role responsibilities. The solution isn’t, or shouldn’t be, pick one - baby or career as you seem to be suggesting.^

Forinborn Well, for some positions it is impossible, as simple as that - not due to patriarchy, but due to the nature of the job itself.

NamechangeApril21
If men are able to become parents and have a young family while working in these positions, then it is due to patriarchy.

Becoming a carer for your children does mean that you cannot do your jobat the same time.
Maybe for you. Plenty of women manage to research, assess, write, attend meetings/training, visit sites and vote while caring for children. It is not always practical, but it is sometimes and the person best placed to judge that is the working mother of the child.

@NamechangeApril21

If men are able to become parents and have a young family while working in these positions, then it is due to patriarchy.

It is not whether it is a man or a woman who is making the career decision. It is about who is the main carer for the said baby.

I have young children and I am their sole carer, and I know that there are jobs that I would not go for just simply out of rationality, not because I feel the pressure of the patriarchy. Anything that requires extensive travel, weekend shifts... the list is endless, right up to working on a polar research station (something I'd actually love to do).

It would be remarkably stupid for me to take one of those positions in full knowledge of what it requires and then start protesting about not being accommodated, no?

@TooBigForMyBoots

Becoming a carer for your children does mean that you cannot do your jobat the same time. Maybe for you. Plenty of women manage to research, assess, write, attend meetings/training, visit sites and vote while caring for children. It is not always practical, but it is sometimes and the person best placed to judge that is the working mother of the child.

Maybe. I don't know a single success story like that, to be honest - and I know a lot of reasonably high-flying women in research and business, but I'll believe you that you know plenty who managed to do both their job and baby-care at the same time. Quite the opposite, the typical story is that the lockdown - where exactly that was expected by employers - brought many of them to the brink of a mental breakdown.

I am not a superwoman, and I don't want the expectation to be that I should combine a full time job and a full time motherhood with grace. Selfish reasons.

What retrogressive nonsense. And ending a sentence with "no?" is ridiculous.