Why do people believe Covid was made in a lab?

[Disabrie22]

I saw this on another thread about someone having a cold - where does this theory come from? I only know one person who believes this, who interestingly is in medicine. I have no strong opinion, just trying to live through this like most people. But I’m interested in why people might believe this.

@Whitefire

I must be dumb or just tired as your re-writing doesn't make sense to me still!

I was reading it as 'why now?' As in why would there be bay transmission now, which is obviously a daft view.

man eats bat, world goes to pot

And nothing like this had been proposed.

Epidemiologists had been working on hypotheses for a pandemic - which is why we got data & responses so quickly - for quite a while. The likelihood of a novel virus, particularly animal-related, was extremely high.

An Irish epidemiologist said at the outset, it was a matter of when, not if.

This was a surprise to us, but not people working in the field.

I was absolutely convinced that it was all anti Chinese rhetoric to begin with

Then I read the first chapter of this and it completely changed my mind

www.amazon.co.uk/Failures-State-Inside-Britains-Coronavirus/dp/0008430527?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I read it to mean that 18 months - 2 years on she laughs at the idea that she thought it came from a man eating a bat. As in it now seems an absolute absurd idea, yet it was pretty much universally accepted back then.

Now I'm doubting myself.

I do not believe that it was a purposefully released virus, i also don't believe that it is a coincidence that wuhan, the location of a lab specifically working on coronavirus is the zero point. I also found the WHO advising that their investigation, over a year after the pandemic began, found that it was not the source of the virus based on the lack of paperwork and a robust conversation with a Chinese official did not convince me that that was not a cover up. Along with the indication that staff from the lab were amongst the first infected.

I do reckon it was an accident that the infection that got out and that the Chinese government would never admit this, that they had a year to destroy any evidence and have been less than cooperative.

@whitefire both are plausible. Mad cow disease came is thought to originate from cows being feed sheep infected with a similiar version of the disease. This was the middle ground to human transmission.
HIV came from the consumption of monkeys.

Just to be clear, the first section looks at Wuhan and the gathering of coronaviruses, it then progresses to look at the UK

It seems entirely possible to me that it was manipulated in a lab. I'm not convinced 100% either way, but I don't think it's ridiculous or ludicrous to be suspicious.

I do 100% believe that we shouldn't trust most governments (including the one in China) to be honest about such things, if they even know the truth.

As a biology grad i dismissed this as wishful thinking by people who cant get their heads around the fact that humans cant control nature.

But over time i have decided not to be closed minded about the possibility. The first thing my lecturer said to us on my degree is that you can not dismiss what you can not disprove. He was talking about God and Adam and eve but the principle spans all biology. Darwin's theory is just that a theory. One I I strongly believe is true but so could Adam and Eve be a theory.

Anyway. Lots of old scientist like Darwin was scoffed at for being ridiculous in his day. If we dont open our minds we can never fully learn or see so a great scientist would look to evidence of impossibility. Which here does not exist.

Weak arguments for this being fact are equally dangerous as people saying things like eg "it's similar to aids" dont understand that viruses all started at one branch so any sub branches will have common genetics. Same with us and say a butterfly. But we didnt mutate from a butterfly, just a much lower branch.

But meh, my personal theory is it's like aids, a opportunity to cross species and there are thousands of worse viruses waiting for the same opportunity. That we dont like that as we like to feel in control and nature surely couldnt kill us all off at any time so randomly.

Got to stay open minded or your bias will blind the truth.

From what I've read it's thought the closest thing to covid 19 was found in bat caves in Laos and was transported to Wuhan. How exactly it became the virus we know today .. well who knows and I'm not sure we'll ever be privvy to that information tbh.

There are not 1000's of these labs, there are 59 in the world that handle the most deadly material and Wuhan is the largest of these.

There are about 10.000 cities.

So, it's not just about being in an urban area, this is a very specific lab handling a very specific virus.

I've been fascinated by these theories from the start- initially it was the 'wet market' theory and everyone said Trump was definitely wrong, genetics proved it was natural in origin (not lab made which doesn't rule out a lab leak anyway) and then a year later, everyone said, oh actually I was made to say that, and in fact it could have been the lab after all.

Interesting that NIH also funded the lab as well, so American and Chinese funding was there.

Occam's Razor tells me it's very likely that if your outbreak starts about 7 miles away from the world's largest deadly virus lab that specialises in coronavirus, then it's not that much of a leap to think it might have come from there, accidentally or otherwise. Otherwise why didn't it develop in one of the many other wet markets that sell live animals esp in that part of China?

I'm not 100% sure, it could also be naturally developed and then just let out from the lab by a worker..

I just can't get over the coincidence of it all, and then the politicizing of the whole thing, and all the scientists who were pressured to jump one way or another- and are still jumping.

theconversation.com/fifty-nine-labs-around-world-handle-the-deadliest-pathogens-only-a-quarter-score-high-on-safety-161777

There's an excellent documentary on the channel 4 catch up about this subject.

Basically, a lot of highly respected people believe that it is plausible and there is a paper trail that proves that they were testing bat origin coronavirus in the lab. As others have said.

To me, I can't see how anybody could look at any of the circumstances and wholly discount the lab hypothesis.

My own personal take is that it came from the lab, but by accident.

The USA and the WHO have been investigating if it could be a lab leak

America funded the lab
America threatened to pull funding form WHO

Mmmmm

I think this was the doc for anybody who's interested: www.channel4.com/programmes/did-covid-leak-from-a-lab-in-china

It explains a lot that I can't be bothered to type out at this time of night It's very balanced and informative.

Because it’s a possibility, just look at all the yoyoing WHO are doing about the lab in Wuhan

An accidental lab leak is always going to be a possibility and is feasible to me. The WHO had previously expressed concern about bio security in this particular lab. The Chinese were very evasive and closed about the virus, until its existence was whistle blown by a Chinese Doctor. When you look at a the Chinese wet markets though, if you can stand to, its perfectly feasible that all sorts of diseases are festering there too.

@LawnFever

I’m no conspiracy theorist, but when I had covid, the weird change in taste I got reminded me of having a come down off a chemical substance from back in the day, it didn’t feel like any virus I’ve ever had.

I have no other basis for thinking it’s man made than this, I’ve since had my jabs, I’m not generally one for believing these kind of weird ideas, but it does make me think…

Interested you said this. My adult son has just recovered from COVID and has been having some weird psychological stuff. Said to me today he had been eating a ham sandwich and the change in taste made him think he was eating human flesh.

It’s possible it came from the lab, probably by accident, as a pp said foot and mouth leaked from a UK lab. This covid lab theory was suggested at the beginning but unfortunately it was shouted down as racist, especially by a bunch of scientists who had links to China, which of course they didn’t reveal at the time.

All evidence will have disappeared by now of course.

If you were walking past Chester zoo and you saw a lion outside the gates, you would consider the possibility that said lion escaped from the zoo.

I read that somewhere - maybe it was on here? - and I thought it was a good take.

Someone medical mentioned "novel" it's new and unknown. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but it's probably one of the possibilities.

[quote spacetreasure]I'm no conspiracy theorist or anything and don't really have an opinion, but I found this a decent read on the subject from a reputable source.

thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/[/quote]
Just re-posting this article - there is a lab legitimately studying such a coronavirus, and the lax attitudes towards the standard safety procedures listed in the article really ring true, in my experience of knowing human beings in the workplace.

As the article says, it doesn't really pick a side but looks at the evidence for and against. (Although it concludes accidental lab leak seems likelier). It's from May this year. It is a long read, but I think worth it.

@Snoozer11

If you were walking past Chester zoo and you saw a lion outside the gates, you would consider the possibility that said lion escaped from the zoo.

I read that somewhere - maybe it was on here? - and I thought it was a good take.

It would be an even better analogy if Chester Zoo wouldn't let anyone investigate the zoo until months later after a big clear-up, and even then didn't let them anywhere near the lion enclosure. And if Chester Zoo tried to bully as many as they could into silence.

Obviously I dont know - but if I had to bet I would verge towards going for made /modified and leaked by accident from a lab.

It doesnt seem right to me the way this virus seems to be able to infect everyone and everything - yet it took them a year to find even one animal in the wild with it - which turned out to likely be a Mink escaped from a Utah farm (where there were known captive outbreaks). I think thats probably down to how it is destroyed by sunlight and can only really survive in artificial environments on surfaces. Which makes me think it evolved or was created in those circumstances (ie. without daylight).

This virus also just seems to do everything we don't want it to do; at every bloody turn. And I am not saying nature cant do that, but its never perfect at first - it needs to adapt. This virus seemed to pop out of nowhere as pretty much perfect to infect the whole world and most of the animals in it and no one can find a plausible route where it evolved from - even theoretically.

And China - I am not saying they are evil orchestrating overlords or whatever. Thats obviously rubbish. Its more likely an idiot at work who cba to change their suit before nipping to the loo.

Because it’s plausible
Becuase the Chinese government have hampered international investigations
Becuae the WHO tried to investigate

I don’t think it was but know very little about viruses but I wouldn’t be completed shocked to find out it was from a lab

It's also worth noting that "escaped from lab" does not necessarily mean "artificially manufactured".