Unvaxxed dilemma

[TheRussianDoll]

Having a small family get together for sons 21st. Surprise “do”. My friends and DH’s family all vaccinated and lots of boosters too. My family … quite a few anti vaxxers. I had absolutely no idea but now, DH wants me to stop them coming or, tell others that some at the gathering aren’t vaccinated.

I have told my family “no fax no invite” but it’s causing very bad feeling. My son has Aspergers so, it’s not a big “do” but I’ve put a lot of thought and love into the plan and now I feel very deflated. It’ll cut the guest list by half.

DH is 62. Has pulmonary sarcoidosis and diabetes and as a family unit, “we” have followed every rule going and still mask, even outside in crowded places.

What should I do?

@bluelavender… that’s a lovely idea. As I say, we are utilising the outside a bit, opening the French windows onto a gazebo and fire pit. No one will be hugging. They all know DS doesn’t do displays of affection. The four Yr old and 7yr old excepted.

I’m not sure people with the third jab carry it or pass it on though. It’s meant to stop transmission.

Wishing your DS a very happy 21st birthday, I hope you all have a lovely time.

@MissHavershamReturns… thanks. I just want it to be a bit memorable for him. His life has been so bleak over the years. He’s just got a little job and the people at work have sent a lovely little video of them all cheering and wishing him a happy birthday. I want him to know, his life IS worth it and people care about him.

He takes a LOT of convincing!

@user1493494961… thank you 😊

@Seenoevil1

Make them shower then walk through a bleach trough just like we did in public swimming pools in the 1970s On a serious note I think it is wildly unreasonable not to invite some people in your family who have, for whatever reason, chosen not to have the vaccine. We are teetering on the brink of totalitarianism. Perhaps your partner would like non vaxx-ed people to be branded or identified in some way...this situation where freedom of choice is under attack makes me feel very sad. It reminds me of many occasions in history where groups were scapegoated and isolated in society.

I think that from the point of view where the guest of honour is so vulnerable, he's perfectly entitled to be as dictatorial as possible, seeing as it's his life that's at stake.

Or do you think that him and people with cancer should sacrifice themselves in order for you to feel happier about your decision not to be vaccinated?

@TheRussianDoll how lovely that he has work and they cheered. I’ve got covid so really em my original and that has set me off again

Really emotional

His life is very, very small.
And just as inherently valuable as anyone's. Wishing him a hugely happy birthday and a life full of peace and fulfilment. He doesn't have to live up to anyone else's (apparent) achievements, he has his own worth.

Any yes do whatever protects your guests, the last thing you want from this event is anyone vulnerable to catch covid - your DS would be upset if that happened apart from anything else. I'm so happy for you that you still have him.

As for the anti-vaxxers, I'm soooooooo fed up with their nonsense.

Stick to your 'no vaccine, no invite plan.'

@Seenoevil1

Perhaps your partner would like non vaxx-ed people to be branded or identified in some way...this situation where freedom of choice is under attack makes me feel very sad

I feel sad for the partners and families of people I know who have died due to COVID.

But if stupid people continue to die, I suppose that's Darwinian.

Anyone else heard of the Darwin Awards?

Their vaccination status makes no difference - you can still catch and pass on the virus. What matters is whether or not anyone has the virus at the point of the meet up. Everyone should do a lateral flow test beforehand.

From a preventing an infection POV, you would be a million times better asking everyone (vaxxed or unvaxxed) to do a lateral flow in advance though? We all know by now that vaxxed people can catch and spread Covid to a significant degree. The primary utility of vaccination is to protect the person vaccinated from serious illness (and I think that will hold true even post-boosters, as they will no doubt wane). I'm vaxxed and wouldn't be at all offended if a CEV person made that request before a social event at their home.

Also an unvaxxed person who has recently had a confirmed Covid infection is much safer than a vaxxed person who hasn't, statistically (reinfections are still not that common judging by PHE stats). And I'm saying that as someone who is fully vaxxed / very pro-vaccination. The vaccines are great, but the vaccination = magic anti-Covid forcefield some people are slipping into is actually quite dangerous. My home country has vaccine passports for most indoor things + the highest vaccination rate in western Europe and we're still having a big spike with significantly worse infection rates than the UK. There isn't a magic wand to make anything 100% Covid secure.

I'm double jabbed and currently have COVID having caught it from an unvaccinated person. Being double jabbed decreases the transmission rate, therefore if all attending were double jabbed it would be much safer. LFT's are all well and good but I know I was exposed on the Tuesday but I still didn't get a positive LFT until the following Sunday and I passed it on to someone else who is immunocompromised on the Thursday after I was exposed. In summary, I think you're well within your rights to not invite the unvaccinated. It's too dangerous for your husband.

Your DH has pulmonary sarcoidosis
For that reason alone he is not being unreasonable

I had covid with no symptoms, negative lft in the morning, positive PCR in afternoon, fully vax. You need to focus on precautions like ventilation and assume people may have it.

Vaccinated people can still carry it and pass it on, and you should be able to trust your own protection no? Do you all stay in 24 hours a day?
Ask them to do a test before they come.
You are being unreasonable

I have all kinds of issues with this

As a triple vaxxed person, I'd not attend as I'd consider it so appalling on so many levels. I know it's meant to be a surprise party but it seems like it might cost your son friends as well.

Do you know what his views are on this generally?

I don’t think you can rely on the tests.

My son tests daily for work. He tested positive and positive on the pcr. Out of curiosity he did another test the following day and it was negative. I know other people who have done something similar and it would suggest there is sometimes only a small window where the test is positive.

If my son was testing every other day he wouldn’t have known.

I wouldn’t attend an event where someone is vulnerable. Despite the tests it’s quite possible that he could catch it and I wouldn’t want to be responsible for that.

@treesandrocks

The vaxxed can be Covid carriers, just the same as the unvaxxed.

The only way to be safe is for ALL the guests to do lateral flow tests to ensure don't have Covid (there are plenty of vaxxed people in hospital with Covid, as I'm sure you know).

Define 'plenty'. The vast majority in ICUs are unvaxxed.

"In hospital, Covid-19 has largely become a disease of the unvaccinated."

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

The vast majority in ICU are overweight or obese but this seems not to be mentioned

An anonymous article doesn’t really prove anything and it isn’t really the point who is or isn’t in hospital.

The fact is that the vaccinated are still getting covid and can be infectious. The fact is the tests don’t produce a positive test the moment you get it. The fact is the Nhs are being clear they are overwhelmed.

People have been locked down, lost their jobs and homes, had disruptions to their children’s education and many have not been able to get the medical treatment they need. And they’ve done all this willingly to protect the vulnerable for nearly two years.

And now we have the ops H who despite being vulnerable wants a party.

I don’t think I’m the only person getting a bit fed up with this sort of thing. If he does get covid somebody is going to be blamed for it and it won’t be him.

I appreciate he’s had a difficult time, everyone has but the vulnerable really need to start taking responsibility for themselves and stop putting themselves at risk.

Denial. Comfy, until you can't breathe.

Here's a non-anonymous article that says the same thing:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/23/covid-patients-in-icu-now-almost-all-unvaccinated-says-oxford-scientist

@MarbleQueen I don’t really agree that there’s anything wrong whatsoever with a CEV person setting any rules in their own home that they feel best keep themselves safe.

I have an extremely CEV person in my friendship circle and would happily do anything they felt they needed me to do - only meet with double vaxxed people, only meet outside, do an lft before, only come if I wasn’t even the slightest bit ill. I just view that as common human decency.

Seenoevil1 Spot on.

I had Covid (then Pneumonia and a stroke) in July, was on a ventilator for 2 weeks, in hospital for 6 weeks in total. I'd had the vaccine!

One of my sons hasn't had the vaccine, his choice entirely, he's a grown man. I certainly wouldn't stop seeing him!