To have had enough

[Atypicaldancer]

I can’t cope with the situation with Dd 15. We’ve just got to the end of the line. She has struggled to attend school and lessons. She has meltdowns and runs away if staff challenge her. She has obsessive behaviour around people and we recently had a visit from the police after she fell out with a friend and told her in a message to ‘kill herself.’ That stopped when the girl’s mother made me aware, but the police only visited today - six weeks later and brought it all back again. I’m distraught. She’s failed all her mocks, after trying to go in and sit them. I am worried for her future.

She’s averagely bright (was predicted 4-6 in everything) and has got U in all the mocks she got back so far.

This is her biology mock.

Her brother and sister are both doing really well. Her behaviour prompted a family support worker to visit and she said she didn’t need to do an assessment because I was doing everything right and she couldn’t offer any more support than I already had privately. There’s not really been a trigger; this behaviour has always been present to an extent at home but it’s now showing at school.

She was assaulted by a boy she knew last year, but this predates that. It does bother me that the police are speaking to this boy next week after almost a year.

@Atypicaldancer

He was angry because she called him ‘a fucking cunt’ after the police had been. I explained that she can’t articulate her emotions and that she was distressed. It’s obviously awful language, but Dd is beyond normal realms of behaviour and needs love and understanding.

I agree that she does need love and understanding but she also needs firm boundaries otherwise her behaviour will get worse. Boundaries may seem unfair when a child is distressed but they actually help then feel safer and can improve their emotion regulation. Calmly explaining to her that calling names and using bad language is not an acceptable way of managing and expressing her emotions and giving her other ways of articulating this may be helpful to her to give her an outlet for how she is feeling without giving her a licence to speak to people in a rude way.

She does get told to apologise and she does get told it is wrong to speak to people that way.

When she’s in a meltdown, she’s best left to calm down.

With the bullying incident- she lost her phone for a week.

I’m a teacher and can get classes to behave for me, so I don’t think I can be so terrible with Dd.

Whilst I can find some parallels in her behaviours as you describe and people I know with ADD/ADHD/autism there seems to be more at play. Possibly BPD or PDA.
I don't know how assessments are made, so whether it is the case that they eliminate one thing after another until arriving at a conclusion.

Op that sounds so tough! Sounds like you've done really well (probably fought really hard!) to get her into services. Well done!
I carry out Neurodevelopmental (mostly asd and adhd) assessments and your dc does have some things that do say adolescent girl asd presentation. If CAMHs and Psychiatrist are also pointing towards asd/adhd then that's a good clue, especially if they don't think her presentation can be explained by any differential diagnosis.
Hopefully you can all get some answers, and more importantly the right support. Good luck

I really hope you get answers soon. She sounds a lot like I was as a teen, completely losing control of my emotions. I'm autistic and have ADHD. I also suffer massively with depressive episodes and psychosis, so I hear voices and hallucinate.
As for GCSEs I found them extremely difficult at the time despite being predicted As and A*s in everything. The pressure to perform was too much. I resat maths and English in college and passed with flying colours. I preferred college to high school so much. They seemed better at dealing with the bullying I was experiencing and the environment made me want to be there. Completely different to high school.
I have managed to attend college, raise three kids and hold down a job so don't worry about her future just yet. She still has plenty of time to come good in regards to that.

I didn't mean to sound accusatory OP, I understand how difficult it can be and it sounds like you are doing a wonderful job and being the nurturing influence your DD needs right now. I am also a teacher and work with ASD/ADHD/looked after children, lots of the behaviour you have described fits with the young people I work with but it often only gets to the level you are describing with your DD when there are other stress factors (such as bullying or academic and sensory needs not being met) going on for that young person so my thought process was is there something else going on that has triggered what seems to be her fight or flight response in over drive.

I was a bit worried because on the part of the assessment where she had to infer, with the speech and language therapist - she was able to infer. So she knew ‘duck’ could mean crouch or a duck. She got one or two wrong - ‘He has written several letters…’ She knew that meant writing a letter as in ‘Dear….’ but didn’t get that it could also be letters of the alphabet- if that makes sense.

Her academic and sensory needs are definitely not being met. She can’t cope in mainstream school.

@Nellesbelles no sorry - I know you weren’t. I realise I jump to the defensive. I find this behaviour humiliating in some ways. She comes from a lovely home, in a nice village and I’m so confused about where it comes from.

[quote Atypicaldancer]@Nellesbelles no sorry - I know you weren’t. I realise I jump to the defensive. I find this behaviour humiliating in some ways. She comes from a lovely home, in a nice village and I’m so confused about where it comes from.[/quote]
Don't worry, I get it. It's not your fault..your DD is at a difficult age as it is but with additional needs on top of that it can feel impossible to navigate...for both teenager and parent! It sounds like you are already doing everything you can to get her the help she needs. I'm guessing you have met with the SENDCo at her school to discuss support? Does she have an EHCP?

She does not have an EHCP. Apparently she doesn’t need one 😂 according to school. And won’t get one as she doesn’t have a diagnosis. Which is why I went private and I’ve asked the family support worker to chase school on this.

OP just wanted to say you are doing a wonderful job

Ok. You seem to have tried everything to help her continue in school, but what if what’s causing all the problem is making her go to school.

Are there any avenues you can explore even in a temporary basis, like year out working in non stressful environment or something like that?

And be patient with your husband as well, believe me, it is much easier to put with such dreadful behaviour when the kids are your own. He might be finding it far more difficult than you assume.

She’s desperate to work. She wants to be a hairdresser and has just applied to do an apprenticeship. They have asked for a CV. I wish we lived in an area where she could start college now. We are rural and there aren’t any opportunities pre 16.

@Atypicaldancer

She does not have an EHCP. Apparently she doesn’t need one 😂 according to school. And won’t get one as she doesn’t have a diagnosis. Which is why I went private and I’ve asked the family support worker to chase school on this.

Jeez, got your work cut out for you with that then 🤣. I hope your family support worker can work some magic on that score. A planned school break might not be the worst idea? You could build up gradually to her going back to school over a set amount of timeI know some schools will authorise a break in education but it needs approval by your LA - might be different for your area sorry. They have a duty of care and need to demonstrate how they are supporting her needs. If that school is as bad as it sounds though (no offense) it might be worth looking into other options or even a tutor from home if finances allow.

@Atypicaldancer

She says socially inappropriate things - eg talks about paedophiles at a Mother’s Day lunch. She becomes overwhelmed easily and can’t be reasoned with in that state. Can’t cope with change. Can be hostile, especially to her stepdad - but loves me (I think I’m her safe person).

PDA autism feels an appropriate suggestion.

My friends daughter has it and although she’s 9 she’s very much the same ast the way you describe your daughter. She tells people to kill themselves or stands and says she’s going to kill so bloody cold and deadpan.

Her mother is her safe place to the point she gets intensely jealous of anyone sharing her and will make a major major big deal out of it.

Couple the meltdowns, transitions being a pain. Fwiw Op autism is diagnosed much much later in girls as they can mask so much bette.

Also you don’t need a diagnosis for an EHCP. You can apply yourself and I’ll demand that you do!

Find your local independent SEND support. The local council website should have details and get them to help you. Some Schools don’t like to do EHCPs because having one in place dictates where part of the schools budget has to go before the local authority tops it up. DCs previous school insisted one wasn’t needed. Current school applied and DC got the highest mainstream school rate. But it wasn’t needed

She won’t have a tutor. She just says no to that.

I will look at the EHCP. I’ve been worried about the chance of success without school support.

She sounds very similar to our 17 year old DD who has ADHD, ASD and Anxiety. If CAHMs thought she has ADHD/ASD why did they discharge her in July? I don't understand why they would do that.

She was discharged for mental health. She’s still on the waiting list for CAMHS for ASD/ADHD but Dd couldn’t wait, so we went privately.

This sounds like a freinds daughter who was diagnosed with autism and anxiety in y11. I hope that provides some answers if you get the diagnosis. I would consider some resources for kids with autism as that might help you understand and support her.