What should I have done?

[Wallywobbles]

Hi everybody!
Posting on DM's account at her request.

So, I've just had a very scary experience with an older man at the train station and I wanted to know what I should have done.

I was sitting alone, after dropping off a friend, now waiting for my own train when an older man (25 ish) sits next to me.

Weird, especially with covid and all the others seats empty. But I don't do anything, just sit there quietly on my phone, ignoring him.

Here comes the problem. He starts talking to me, saying he has a question (which I assumed was about the trains). He proceeds to ask for my name, my age (I lied but made sure to say i was a minor - I'm just 17), the train I was taking (I lied and said the one after mine), if I want to go outside several times during the whole ordeal (to which I say no).

During all of this I'm on my phone, texting people to call me so I can have an excuse to walk away and/or stop talking to him.
Eventually he asks if I can move my arms (so I do), then he asks how much I am paid - when I mentioned I hadn't understood him he dismissed this, and then if I could do more than just use my phone with my hands.

Obviously I understand the innuendo behind these questions, but I didn't know what to do other than talk and be as passive as possible while trying to find an out by having someone call me.

He eventually left, but the whole thing left me very shaken and I spent the entire train trip crying. I did check several times to make sure he didn't follow me.

So Mumsnet, what should I have done, and what can I do next time something like this happens (keeping in mind I'm very cautious because I don't want a situation to turn physical as I'm smaller, less strong and less fast) ?

I’m not sure what you should have done OP as the truth is you shouldn’t HAVE to do anything. You should be safe waiting for your train but to be honest most women experience this at least once in their lives.

There are lots of things you could do if you are in this situation again, and you have to decide which is appropriate depending on the setting, whether you are alone or it is a busy place etc

You could try texting the british transport police since it was a train station to let them know you are being / were harassed

You could try to get the attention of other people to help

You can use headphones / a book to ignore them or signal disinterest

You can try asking them to leave you alone

I am so sorry this happened to you x

Was it an unmanned station. 1st thing would be to find a member of staff

If you are being harassed by anyone at a train station or on a train, call the Transport Police!

''To report an incident, text us on 61016, send us the details via our online reporting tool or call 0800 40 50 40 at any time.
If you’re in immediate danger, always call 999.''
www.btp.police.uk/police-forces/british-transport-police/areas/campaigns/Sexual-Harassment/

Ugh that sounds awful. Well done for staying calm. Was there anyone else at the station at all? If so I think get up and walk to where they are. If not, then I think it would be best to phone 999 and say "I'm calling the police, leave me alone" .

You should definitely report this incident to the police. There may be CCTV that they can identify him with.

What I wish I'd told my 17yo self is this:
You don't have to be nice to anyone.
If a question makes you feel weird, you don't have to answer.
And if a man makes you feel uncomfortable tell him loudly that he's making you uncomfortable and to go away. And if he doesn't, say it louder, get your things and walk away while calling your mum/dad. Scream and make a scene if you have to. And sometimes it's perfectly fine to tell someone persistent to fuck off.

It took me years of shedding of that socialisation that is drummed into girls to be 'nice'. And landed me into some very dodgy situations that I didn't know how to get out of.

And when you think about it, men don't bend over backwards in mortified shame putting up with some creep hitting on them, so why the hell do we??

I learned that whether I'm nice or an utter bitch, it make no difference to a creep. They usually call you something nasty when you reject them however nicely you try anyway so if you are going to be called a bitch it might as well be for sticking up for yourself.

If any one else was about, I would have gone to someone, maybe a member of staff, if any about, or an older woman, and asked for help. If no one about, I would have got up and moved, or left the station to look for a shop or other people, or even dial 999.

What a horrible experience. And what a scummy man.

I tell my Dd- if it’s safe, get up and move, then find a member of staff and report it.

Failing that call the police.

DM here.

Ok massive bit of missing info is that we live in France. This was a fairly reasonable size station. Population of the town is 80k. But I don't know if there are transport police so I can fond out.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Like a previous poster said, you shouldn't HAVE to do anything because you shouldn't have been put in that position. Don't feel like you should have behaved any differently - the issue is his entirely.

When I've been in similar situations, I've looked for someone 'safe' looking, a mother and children, an older woman etc and moved to be nearer them or made eye contact and did the 'help' look. Train station staff should know what to do if you approach them.

DD said that as he is wearing a baseball hat the cameras wouldn't have caught his face.

To be honest it's a station that both my DDs have trouble with. It's in a skanky part of town.

Get up and walk away.
Try to find a member of staff or just a member of the public to stand close to.
Do not feel that you have to reply to his questions.
Do not blame yourself or feel that you "asked for it" in any way.

for you

I feel badly for your daughter.
No female should ever have to put up with this harassment.

If staff weren't obviously around, I would have urged my daughter to walk to the nearest couple, family, group of women and ask to stand with them. Walk away, only if it's to a guaranteed place of safety.

Fucking men should sort their shit out.

Apologies for swearing.

Next time, if the station is unmanned and you feel confident enough, stand up and shout "please leave me alone - I don't know you" repeatedly.
It'll get the attention of other passengers and will scare him off, even if nobody else steps in.

To add, I'd be careful leaving the station unless it was possible to go straight to a well lit area. Stations have CCTV but the streets outside may not. Even a deserted station platform might be safer than a dark street. And if you were alone or felt threatened, it definitely justified a 999 call. If other people about, then do whatever needed to draw attention to yourself.

What I wish I'd told my 17yo self is this:
You don't have to be nice to anyone.

This is exactly what I have been telling my DD on repeat, ever since we were both made to feel uncomfortable by a man on a bus when she was just 5 or 6.

It is OK - in fact, it’s necessary - to be rude to anyone who makes you feel uncomfortable.

I could not give a shiny shit if the man has SEN, or is just trying to be friendly. If he makes you (the only important person) uncomfortable, then it’s OK to be rude, even if being ‘rude’ is just not replying and walking away.

OP - I’m so sorry you had to deal with this.

Be OK with being ‘rude’. Being rude isn’t necessarily being confrontational, or putting yourself in danger.

Pick up your phone and have a fake conversation with no-one and just walk away.

Also just want to add - when I was younger I was terrified not to 'politely' answer or engage in conversation. I felt like it'd be somehow be 'rude' of me, and that I just had to put up with it. As I've got older, I'm much less bothered about that and will now have no qualms in saying 'I don't want to speak to you' or something similar.

It might not feel safe for you to do that, which is why I mentioned the things I've done in the past like finding staff members etc. But also just wanted to add that if you feel you can, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying 'can you leave me alone', 'go away', or something similar.

Sounds to me like you had your wits about you which is the first most important thing.

I’d usually say oh my dad will be here in a minute

Move to stand by someone else, ideally staff or you’ll need to make a judgement call

Stay in busy, visible areas near others

999 if you feel at risk

Horrid experience

To be honest it's a station that both my DDs have trouble with. It's in a skanky part of town.

In that case I'd probably try to stay on the phone the entire time while at the station. Also a rape alarm would be a good idea

I have to echo a pp as well that your daughter doesn’t owe anyone her time. She should not feel like she doesn’t have to be rude

In a study I read about, convicted rapists were asked how they picked their targets and aside from lots of other factors, they tried to find victims who looked like they wouldn’t put up a fight. Cowardly men like this pick on young girls because they are often less confident or vulnerable.

They also avoided women with umbrellas as they could be used as a defence weapon so carrying an extendable umbrella might help!

www.ripleycounty.com/sheriff/rape.htm

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/dont-walk-this-way-how-yo_b_6509478/

Although obviously DD didn’t do anything “wrong”, I would say:

1/ Politeness is overrated. At my grand old age, I can say absolutely I would not have answered a single one of those questions. “I’d rather not say” is fairly polite, but I personally would have said “it’s none of your business” or “are you seriously thinking I’m going to answer that” and laughed in his face.

2/ you do not need an “excuse” to walk away. Just walk away. Why are you worrying about being impolite to someone who is happy to make you feel uncomfortable? Just walk away, saying loudly that they are making you feel uncomfortable if need be.

I'm sorry you experienced that, it's truly shit being female in this world sometimes. Today I had to explain to my 10 year old daughter what a flasher was and how she should deal with one, after a man was reported flashing outside her school. Bloody grim that I had to have that conversation with her at 10 years old, and that I had to basically tell her that this sort of shit will probably happen more now that she's getting older. I'm so angry about it all, and what you've had to endure, what we all have to endure day in day out.

As you're in France, pretend you don't understand.
Tell him to go away.
Ask him "why do you want to know"
Answer "none of your business"
Get up and move as soon as someone sits next to you if there's other empty seats. They will always be someone like this.

Don't feel obliged to talk or engage with a stranger. You don't owe them your time or attention.

I would -

• very loudly tell him to eff off.
• walk away.
• find others to sit with/tell.
• find train staff.
• do not leave station alone. Call someone to come meet me.
• ask train staff to report the incident, ask to the man or they can check CCTV? maybe he is a repeat offender at this behaviour, if noticed he can be reported to police etc

Feign an important incoming call or text….get up “sorry I have to attend to this” and walk away to a safe distance.