What should I have done?

[Wallywobbles]

Hi everybody!
Posting on DM's account at her request.

So, I've just had a very scary experience with an older man at the train station and I wanted to know what I should have done.

I was sitting alone, after dropping off a friend, now waiting for my own train when an older man (25 ish) sits next to me.

Weird, especially with covid and all the others seats empty. But I don't do anything, just sit there quietly on my phone, ignoring him.

Here comes the problem. He starts talking to me, saying he has a question (which I assumed was about the trains). He proceeds to ask for my name, my age (I lied but made sure to say i was a minor - I'm just 17), the train I was taking (I lied and said the one after mine), if I want to go outside several times during the whole ordeal (to which I say no).

During all of this I'm on my phone, texting people to call me so I can have an excuse to walk away and/or stop talking to him.
Eventually he asks if I can move my arms (so I do), then he asks how much I am paid - when I mentioned I hadn't understood him he dismissed this, and then if I could do more than just use my phone with my hands.

Obviously I understand the innuendo behind these questions, but I didn't know what to do other than talk and be as passive as possible while trying to find an out by having someone call me.

He eventually left, but the whole thing left me very shaken and I spent the entire train trip crying. I did check several times to make sure he didn't follow me.

So Mumsnet, what should I have done, and what can I do next time something like this happens (keeping in mind I'm very cautious because I don't want a situation to turn physical as I'm smaller, less strong and less fast) ?

You should have got up and moved away as soon as you felt uncomfortable. Out of reach so he couldn't touch you or grab the phone.

Silent treatment. DO NOT ENGAGE.

If there were other adults around, you could have approached one and said "That man is pestering me " ( My pick, in order, would be, station staff; a middle aged woman; a woman with children; a man with children. )

I would have turned off the phone and put it securely in my bag so that I could give my full attention to the situation.

My advice to go near the person who works on the platform should be one around. Or walk to the ticket barrier staff. Hopefully this is the only time you can bet have to experience this

You don't owe any strange men a conversation, an answer, a smile, 'help', or anything else.

You did nothing wrong- he is the creep.

When I was younger I genuinely thought i had to be nice to everyone, even creeps. The truth is, you don't have to be nice. If someone sits next to you and you get a weird vibe, get up and move away. Ignore them. If they touch you then shout at them. You don't owe a stranger anything.

Trust your instincts. They are there to protect you, but as women we are taught to ignore them in the interest of politeness. Fuck that. You knew when he sat down next to you that something was off- that was the time to move (I’m not blaming you for not moving, just saying for next time). If someone makes you uncomfortable by moving into your space, move. You don’t have to explain why, and you get to decide how much space you need to feel comfortable.
Then go and wait somewhere well lit. If you still don’t feel safe, find a woman, or group of women, or a couple, tell them a weirdo is freaking you out, and ask if you can stand with them.
You can do all of this without needing to confront the guy, or stand up to him, or show him that he has upset you.

@WonderfulYou

Was there anyone else around or was the station empty?

A lot of people will say she should have said this or that but the truth is if you are on your own you have to be nice, men can turn on you very quickly.

If there was other people there she could have been more blunt and moved somewhere closer to them but if she was on her own she could have rang someone just so she couldn’t speak to him and of things did turn nasty then there’s someone on the other end.

Hi DD here!

Nobody else was around which is why I didn't move to a staff member or anyone else. I also am polite in this type of situation to avoid antagonizing, which I'm afraid might make things become physical

I think the key is be prepared and don't be polite. Always walk away, towards other people, ideally a woman or someone with children. Sit close to other people and don't stay in a train carriage on your own.

It sounds as though you were trying to be polite. If you feel uncomfortable or threatened tell the person you're not interested and walk away to a safer place. Be aware of your surroundings so you always have an idea of what you would do should you feel unsafe.

I'm so sorry that this happened to you but you did fine and were fully engaged with what was going on. It's upsetting that you should have to think about this but it does mean you can practise asserting yourself. I understand you don't want to risk a situation getting worse but get in the habit of calmly moving away from people if you feel threatened. A personal alarm might be useful too.

Well done for having this conversation now. And remember there is no reason to be polite to someone who makes you feel unsafe.

Hi, just seen your update.

It's a bore to have to be so aware of your surroundings. I am considerably older than you but generally I make sure if I am at an empty station that I stand as close as I can to the exit while waiting for the train to arrive. I also wouldn't get on an empty carriage.

I also wouldn't be antagonistic in this sort of situation if I was on my own - there's no need and the most important consideration is that you keep yourself safe and the situation calm. However, do remember that if things become more tricky you must make a noise. Perhaps a reason to get that personal alarm - they are so loud it is very hard to think straight when they are ringing and you would have the option of switching it on.

Nobody else was around which is why I didn't move to a staff member or anyone else. I also am polite in this type of situation to avoid antagonizing, which I'm afraid might make things become physical

It makes me so angry that as females we have to think so strategically over a simple conversation.

There is an invisible line where you need to be polite but also firm and have boundaries. Of course the man may take whatever you do or say as either a flirt or as you being rude, so sometimes you can’t win.

My advice is to be polite and try and ignore as much as possible. I’d definitely try and ring someone or pretend to. You could say something like I’ve just got to make a quick phone call before the train comes and then walk like you’re trying to get signal/hear them better.

Obviously if there are lots of people around then you can be more rude but when you’re alone I’d definitely play it safe.

It sounds like you absolutely did the right thing, even though it might not feel like it right now. You used your instincts and realised in that situation with no one else around you don’t want to antagonise him so stayed polite and thankfully he didn’t attack you or anything.

However, do remember that if things become more tricky you must make a noise.

Yes I agree.
If you are ever attacked scream and shout as loud as you can for as long as you can. Even if no one is around there’s a chance he’ll worry someone might hear it and he’ll run.

Press some numbers on your phone and say loudly 'I'd like the police please' and then get up and walk away and start talking about what is going on - I guarantee he'd be out of there like a shot.

What is it with French men? I've travelled a lot alone and France (and Spain) are the two countries where I've had the most problems, I've been treated with far more respect in the Middle east/Asia. In France/Spain I was flashed, asked for a blow job by a man in a car, had a man take a shower with the door open while I was cleaning my teeth and had an old man come up and put his arm around me on a train. I feel like no where are women less respected than France and Spain. The wolf pack trial in Spain really highlighted this too.

I'd agree with some of the advice on here, but

<strong>Carry a large unbrella whatever the season</strong>

<strong>- seriously?</strong>

Yes, why? I use it as a sun shade too

Because I have never felt the need to carry a large umbrella. No need ever for a sun shade where I live. When it rains, which is not that often, I want a waterproof not an umbrella. If I am walking any distance at all, an umbrella is a pain to carry. If I'm not, why would I need it?

If I wanted to carry a large umbrella anyway, then fine, but to carry one on the offchance that a creep would start talking to me and I could then - what? Attack him? Defend myself if he attacked? Not going to happen.

There’s good advice in this thread. Walking away is a good idea, it does put some pests off but not all. A bored, non-frightened target isn’t fun for them.

If you can see a cctv camera on the platform, get up and stare at it. He’ll probably look up to see what you’re looking at, and there’s a good chance that will expose his face to the camera. If anyone is monitoring the cctv it will draw their attention to your platform too.

I had an incident like that on a platform years ago when I was about 20 'Luckily' there was a father with his two teen boys on my other side who had noticed what was happening, so I started chatting to them and sat with them on the train.

I put 'luckily' in inverted commas - despite telling me about his wife / the boys' mother the father discreetly handed me his number as he left. Bloody men!

Poor girl, that is horrible and it must be frightening!

I have done something a bit unconventional, but only as what i felt was a last resort (only a couple of times in my life). If noone is around, and I don’t think anyone will be in a few minutes and the situation can turn very dangerous, I get verbally aggressive. Rude, unpleasant and LOUD. I verbalise what i am frightened they would do to me, and i make a scene. Both times, the man backed away because its exactly what they dont want, a huge fuss drawn to them - the second time it also caught attention of people further away and got me safe in company.

Read the gift of fear. Sounds like you followed your instinct. I would usually not advise being rude because actually humiliating/angering the wrong type of person can be pretty problematic. But again you might feel your way Instinctually.

Tell him loudly that you are underage, he is bring inappropriate and to go away. If he doesn't, tell him again, louder and add that you will start screaming if he doesn't leave. Follow through. Shriek as loud as you can, call him a pedo and keep on until someone comes.

If it does get physical, a key in the eye tends to deter most attackers.

@Wallywobbles. Use the British transport police website www.btp.police.uk/
And crimestoppers to report suspicious behaviour

I'm so sorry OP's daughter, it sounds really upsetting.
I don't have a great opinion of men in general but French men treat hitting on young girls as a national sport. I was aggressively sleazed on when I was 12 on a train.
All the advice upthread is great but you need different tools in France. Your school friends would be better placed to advise.
Courage ma brave!

Wallywobbles The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker explains how to cope with different situations, and how to listen to your gut instinct. If its telling you not to antagonize him then listen to that. If it tells you to run then run.

If you are in public with other people about then a personal alarm is useful, you can hit the 'test battery' button once or twice to attract attention.

Use the British transport police website www.btp.police.uk/ And crimestoppers to report suspicious behaviour

Really?

Thats the advice given on the BTP website. There's a number you can text as well as phone, and you can report online.

@DuesToTheDirt that’s your choice
I’m just saying what I was taught , don’t know what your point is ?
We are all just trying to help these ladies

I came here to say something similar to @Etinoxaurus. There's something about French men hitting on you that's often a bit more determined than in the UK. In the UK I've found it easy enough to be polite but quite short which tends to be enough to put them off. In France that didn't really cut it. I remember sitting In the grass in a busy park one day with my headphones in, reading a book, and someone sat down right next to me, tapped my shoulder, and asked me what I was reading. I just don't think men are that forward in the UK, so I found you need to be a bit more direct back.

That's not to say you did anything "wrong" at all, by the way. I think you reacted really well. And I'm so sorry this happened to you