What should I have done?

[Wallywobbles]

Hi everybody!
Posting on DM's account at her request.

So, I've just had a very scary experience with an older man at the train station and I wanted to know what I should have done.

I was sitting alone, after dropping off a friend, now waiting for my own train when an older man (25 ish) sits next to me.

Weird, especially with covid and all the others seats empty. But I don't do anything, just sit there quietly on my phone, ignoring him.

Here comes the problem. He starts talking to me, saying he has a question (which I assumed was about the trains). He proceeds to ask for my name, my age (I lied but made sure to say i was a minor - I'm just 17), the train I was taking (I lied and said the one after mine), if I want to go outside several times during the whole ordeal (to which I say no).

During all of this I'm on my phone, texting people to call me so I can have an excuse to walk away and/or stop talking to him.
Eventually he asks if I can move my arms (so I do), then he asks how much I am paid - when I mentioned I hadn't understood him he dismissed this, and then if I could do more than just use my phone with my hands.

Obviously I understand the innuendo behind these questions, but I didn't know what to do other than talk and be as passive as possible while trying to find an out by having someone call me.

He eventually left, but the whole thing left me very shaken and I spent the entire train trip crying. I did check several times to make sure he didn't follow me.

So Mumsnet, what should I have done, and what can I do next time something like this happens (keeping in mind I'm very cautious because I don't want a situation to turn physical as I'm smaller, less strong and less fast) ?

@Drinkingallthewine

What I wish I'd told my 17yo self is this: You don't have to be nice to anyone. If a question makes you feel weird, you don't have to answer. And if a man makes you feel uncomfortable tell him loudly that he's making you uncomfortable and to go away. And if he doesn't, say it louder, get your things and walk away while calling your mum/dad. Scream and make a scene if you have to. And sometimes it's perfectly fine to tell someone persistent to fuck off.

It took me years of shedding of that socialisation that is drummed into girls to be 'nice'. And landed me into some very dodgy situations that I didn't know how to get out of.

And when you think about it, men don't bend over backwards in mortified shame putting up with some creep hitting on them, so why the hell do we??

I learned that whether I'm nice or an utter bitch, it make no difference to a creep. They usually call you something nasty when you reject them however nicely you try anyway so if you are going to be called a bitch it might as well be for sticking up for yourself.

I agree with this. You don't have to be nice and polite. The most important thing is to be safe. You are entitled to get up and walk away if you feel safe enough to do so. Walk towards someone or a group of people and explain what is going on. I would always try to help someone in that situation.

[quote Thelnebriati]If you are being harassed by anyone at a train station or on a train, call the Transport Police!

''To report an incident, text us on 61016, send us the details via our online reporting tool or call 0800 40 50 40 at any time.
If you’re in immediate danger, always call 999.''
www.btp.police.uk/police-forces/british-transport-police/areas/campaigns/Sexual-Harassment/[/quote]
This.

And please report him now if you can describe the time, where you were sitting etc. There may well be cameras they can look at and track the creep down.

Ask him "why do you want to know"

This to me seems like something the creep would latch onto as her being interested? Or am I misinterpreting what you mean?

“sorry I have to attend to this”

An interesting one from my call center career years ago - we were told to never use the word 'sorry' as it psychologically puts you on the back foot with the customer so we were marked up on our calls if we said things like "sorry your policy doesn't actually cover that" We were told that if we had to, to say something like "I'm afraid your policy doesn't cover that" or the like.

I realised how often I would have said 'sorry' when I meant anything but - so almost never say it now unless I am actually apologising to someone! In the OP's case, a curt "excuse me, I need to get out please" sounds more confident than "sorry could you let me out please?"

I wouldn’t engage with the man at all and I wouldn’t recommend that.

Creepy bastards want a way in, don’t give them an inch!

I had something similar happen to me in my early twenties. I'd had a late flight to meet my then boyfriend in London and then got a train to the station near where he lived. I sat on a bench to wait for him as he was running late and this guy started talking to me in the same way and trying to move closer to me. This was around 10 or 11pm on a dark night with no one around - no staff and the few other passengers who'd got off the train at the same time had left. I really got a bad fright because it was very clear what his intentions were. Luckily my boyfriend turned up at that moment because I'm not sure what would've happened. If I'd tried to run away there was no one around and he was more than young enough to catch me.

Instead of texting friends to ask them to call me, I would have called them.

Or just made a fake phone call.

Your instinct told you to stay quiet and polite, perhaps that was exactly the right thing to do in this instance.

As others have said, alternative actions are to move to somewhere more populated, even just by one member of the public. Or be downright rude.

Have you read The Gift of Fear?

I have the Brit transport police number in my mobile - good to have it handy. They react to text so the PITA you were with wouldn't even know you were contacting them

be as passive as possible

Personally I think this was a good strategy.

I absolutely agree we shouldn't have to be polite to people in this sort of scenario, but where your safety is at risk I think it's best to avoid doing anything that might antagonise the person.

I agree if possible, find a member of staff or call (the local equivalent of) the police/transport police. You could also approach another woman - I know I would try to help in that situation, and I'm 47 so it's unlikely a 25 year old would try it on with me.

I would have got up and walked away. Maybe if I felt safe enough, took his photo from a distance and made a phone call.

Tbh I might have told him to fuck off, even though I know that's potentially risky. Standing up and screaming fuck off you pervert! might not be the wisest course of action but I have been known to do this.

The key thing is to get comfortable with the idea that you do not ever have to put up with this in the name of politeness. Someone oversteps your boundaries, you immediately step away/call for help. The longer you sit there, the most questions you answer, the more invested they become in getting to you. If you shut them down before they even get started, you may well seem like hard work for them. But either way, get yourself to safety immediately you begin to feel unsafe. Don't question yourself. Trust your instincts.

The book THE GIFT OF FEAR is well worth reading.

Was there anyone else around or was the station empty?

A lot of people will say she should have said this or that but the truth is if you are on your own you have to be nice, men can turn on you very quickly.

If there was other people there she could have been more blunt and moved somewhere closer to them but if she was on her own she could have rang someone just so she couldn’t speak to him and of things did turn nasty then there’s someone on the other end.

@Wallywobbles

Hi everybody! Posting on DM's account at her request.

So, I've just had a very scary experience with an older man at the train station and I wanted to know what I should have done.

I was sitting alone, after dropping off a friend, now waiting for my own train when an older man (25 ish) sits next to me.

Weird, especially with covid and all the others seats empty. But I don't do anything, just sit there quietly on my phone, ignoring him.

Here comes the problem. He starts talking to me, saying he has a question (which I assumed was about the trains). He proceeds to ask for my name, my age (I lied but made sure to say i was a minor - I'm just 17), the train I was taking (I lied and said the one after mine), if I want to go outside several times during the whole ordeal (to which I say no).

During all of this I'm on my phone, texting people to call me so I can have an excuse to walk away and/or stop talking to him.
Eventually he asks if I can move my arms (so I do), then he asks how much I am paid - when I mentioned I hadn't understood him he dismissed this, and then if I could do more than just use my phone with my hands.

Obviously I understand the innuendo behind these questions, but I didn't know what to do other than talk and be as passive as possible while trying to find an out by having someone call me.

He eventually left, but the whole thing left me very shaken and I spent the entire train trip crying. I did check several times to make sure he didn't follow me.

So Mumsnet, what should I have done, and what can I do next time something like this happens (keeping in mind I'm very cautious because I don't want a situation to turn physical as I'm smaller, less strong and less fast) ?

Ok, I'm sorry this happened and no, you shouldn't have to put up with this. Next time go back to the station entrance to find staff. If there are no staff phone 999. Do not phone the transport police as they could take ages. Your best bet is to get up and ask for help from someone else in the station, I promise people will help. You could even drop an iMessage to everyone nearby to alert them if you have an iPhone - make sure you say what you are wearing so people can see who dropped the message. People will respond.

I also meant to say, you did well to lie about who you are/what train you were getting etc.

It's always hard to know exactly what to do in these situations but you did keep yourself safe, so you did right by yourself. It's easy for others to come along in the cold light of day and say, I would have done this or that - but we have all been in these situations and had to play the hand dealt, which doesn't always allow for the moves we're describing here. It's just good to know what potential moves there can be, and again, the most important thing, it's okay to be "rude" or impolite to keep yourself safe.

I was told to always look for my exits. Something that has always stayed with me Do not engage at all , get up and move, then ring someone to tell them exactly where you are and when you will be home. Carry a large unbrella whatever the season
It's not being submissive its all about keeping yourself safe
Confidence will come with age

Get up, sit yourself next to another adult, tell them you are a little concerned.

My dd had this on a train at 16. Thankfully an older woman saw her discomfort and tapped the seat next to her for my dd to join her. She text me and I was waiting on the station to give the pissed up pervert a piece of my mind.

I would have got up and walked away. I am not sure walking away is poible, any movement at all sometimes. It's that predator and prey thing. The fear that any movement would accelerate the final swoop!

Now at 56 I'd move, jump up shout and make a big show. At 17, I imagine I'd assume the size of a mouse and keep my fingers crossed.

What should she do now? Report it to whoever you can. He could be local and a repeat offender which would make him easier to find!

I would’ve moved away from him & called the Police. Report it OP, otherwise he’s going to carry on doing this sort of thing or something worse.

You could’ve took his photo.

I think if you’re not a very confident person then the best thing to do would be to find a mum with children and explain the situation. Mums are fierce protectors, i would have pretended you were my daughter.

This may not be much help to your DD but here find a member of staff and report it. Also report to BTP. You can do this by text on 61016 or phone 0800 405040.

Your DD needs to report to the rail authorities and police. He may have form, he needs reporting.

@FrankGrillosWrist

You could’ve took his photo.

It's easy to say this but I was threatened when I was walking recently and I was too scared to take his picture in case it made him angrier.

I'd agree with some of the advice on here, but

Carry a large unbrella whatever the season

• seriously?

Best thing to do is do not start to engage with him at all. He asks you a question you let him know firmly you do not want to talk and you walk away, get physical distance between you and him. Sit next to others if needs be.

With these kind of creeps the moment you engage, they take it as a green light.

Move away, take a photo if you safely can if not send a description to someone on your contact list, if he follows you call 17 and explain that a man is pestering you. Do not speak to him other than to say in a loud voice GO AWAY. I hope this never happens to you again

@DuesToTheDirt

I'd agree with some of the advice on here, but

Carry a large unbrella whatever the season

• seriously?

Yes, why? I use it as a sun shade too Don't take a photo but make notes on your phone of his physical description It just looks like you are texting