Remote workers doing multiple jobs in the same time frame, getting away with it, underperforming.

[flashbac]

"Remote working has made it easier than ever for staff to moonlight. But how do they cope with clashing meetings and two bosses? And can the rewards be worth the lies?"

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/nov/16/its-the-biggest-open-secret-out-there-the-double-lives-of-white-collar-workers-with-two-jobs

Can you imagine having two computers on and being on two zoom meetings simultaneously? (Advice is to mute yourself and turn camera off.)

I think this if CF territory. I hope it doesn't become more mainstream. Remote working is a force for good. These CFs might ruin it for everyone.
And aibu to think the bullshittting aspect of this will be easier for men to get away with? Here is someone explaining how to get away with underperformance. Apparently if you keep sending your manager emails about how hard you are trying they will stay off your back:

overemployed.com/set-low-expectations-at-your-two-remote-jobs/

@RedskyThisNight

There are clearly a lot of people not fully actually working when they are wfh. Unless you have very clear productivity targets it can be hard to pick up in a lot of jobs. In the job I do, a task might take 30 minutes or 5 hours for example depending on the complexity of the detail, which you won't know until you get into it. It's very easy to claim that it took you 5 hours, actually take 30 minutes and do your own thing for 4.5 hours. It's obvious from some people's lack of availability to support people (the one thing that the people insisting their productivity has increased never address - how has your increase in productivity affected others?) that they are not working at the same level they used to.

If people are genuinely more productive at home, then I don't know why companies are not increasing objectives. If you're paid for 8 hours work a day and finish it in 6, then you should be asking for 2 hours more of work, not swanning off. And if there is no more work, then maybe the company will need less staff?

And yes, totally agree about others picking up the slack. These people are going to get pissed off soon, because if you're in an organisation where no one spots you're not working, the people doing lots of extra aren't noticed either.

Why should people be penalised for being productive, though? My sister is an absolute demon and can do in a couple of hours what most people do in an entire day. She wouldn't be able to maintain that level of focus and productivity all day. She gets up and smashes through all the work before lunchtime and then takes it easy in the afternoon. Most people work slowly, take loads of breaks, get distracted, etc. If she asked for more work, she would be doing much more than anyone else, and how is that fair? She's being paid for her expertise, not her time sat in front of a laptop.

People should get paid for what they do, not how long it takes them to do it. That's how so many tradesmen get away with taking ages to do anything. I had two guys in to fix my boiler the other week and they took the absolute piss - tea and fag breaks every 45 minutes, traipsing in and out, texting. I guarantee that if they were paid for the job and not the time, they wouldn't have taken over 9 hours.

I wfh 2 days a week and I'm really productive without any distractions going on I have to say and get a lot done which makes up for the time that's wasted when I am in work being interrupted.
I certainly don't have time for a side huddle but I manage to take home food deliveries, put washing on, walk my dog, prepare dinner

My kids are still quite young but in a couple of years I'll also be able to knock the breakfast and after school clubs on the head and walk them round the corner which will save me £24 per day

What's not to like!

@Oftenithinkaboutit. You probably earn far more that’s me if you happy to give up 22£ a day😁. I’m NHS band 7 ...... but part time .....I have IT support at the end of a phone...I just task admin support and they do all my printing for me and posting..... I spend my days at home with the dog .....Love it

[quote Kitkat151]@Oftenithinkaboutit. You probably earn far more that’s me if you happy to give up 22£ a day😁. I’m NHS band 7 ...... but part time .....I have IT support at the end of a phone...I just task admin support and they do all my printing for me and posting..... I spend my days at home with the dog .....Love it[/quote]
Yes I probably do
I imagine anyone renting office space will have done a cost benefit analysis on the basis of what they earn. And £22 a day was a no brainer for me.

People should get paid for what they do, not how long it takes them to do it

Well maybe, but that's not how the majority of employment contracts work. Most people are paid to be available for work for a certain number of hours. And in most cases it's impossible to state what you should achieve in a day because unless you're in a very routinised job (something like manufacturing maybe) it's impossible to specify exactly what you are expected to do. Most of my job is dealing with stuff "that comes up". I don't know now (at 7.45) what I'll be doing at work today. And, unless you have a job where you are completely self sufficient, then you can't just get all your jobs done in 6 hours rather than 8, because "your job" also includes being available for other people to talk to about work related things and to deal with high priority things that come up. You can't decide these don't happen between 3 and 5 because you are "so productive you got all your work done". You can certainly adopt a work pattern where you motor through the majority of your work and then adopt a more relaxed attitude for a couple of hours. This isn't penalising you for being productive. Absolutely if your job is "complete x, y and z" and no need to do anything else, then you can finish the jobs quickly and do what you want. Most wfh aren't like that though.

Be interested to know which sector all these piss takers work in and the sectors where WFH or hybrid works. It works very well in my sector and we know we are performing well because we are the first organisation to do certain things. We're professionals who manage our own time and schedule and get things done because we want to achieve. There are natural peaks and troughs and we work to these cycles. All out over certain periods, then breathers where we look at easy things and relax a bit.

@RedskyThisNight

People should get paid for what they do, not how long it takes them to do it

Well maybe, but that's not how the majority of employment contracts work. Most people are paid to be available for work for a certain number of hours. And in most cases it's impossible to state what you should achieve in a day because unless you're in a very routinised job (something like manufacturing maybe) it's impossible to specify exactly what you are expected to do. Most of my job is dealing with stuff "that comes up". I don't know now (at 7.45) what I'll be doing at work today. And, unless you have a job where you are completely self sufficient, then you can't just get all your jobs done in 6 hours rather than 8, because "your job" also includes being available for other people to talk to about work related things and to deal with high priority things that come up. You can't decide these don't happen between 3 and 5 because you are "so productive you got all your work done". You can certainly adopt a work pattern where you motor through the majority of your work and then adopt a more relaxed attitude for a couple of hours. This isn't penalising you for being productive. Absolutely if your job is "complete x, y and z" and no need to do anything else, then you can finish the jobs quickly and do what you want. Most wfh aren't like that though.

Well, my sister is the only one in her role. She has certain tasks to perform, and she can choose to take her time or she can power through them. She is pretty much completely self sufficient, and I don't think that's particularly rare. She might have questions from people about things, but she can answer those using her phone while out for a walk or whatever.

Presumably anyone who deals with 'stuff that comes up' could not do what's being referred to in the article because it would quickly become apparent they weren't fully there?

This is another reason to add to the long list why wfh is bad for both employees and employers.

I’m a senior manager and all staff are now required to be in the office 4 days a week at my place.

@OatALot

Be interested to know which sector all these piss takers work in and the sectors where WFH or hybrid works. It works very well in my sector and we know we are performing well because we are the first organisation to do certain things. We're professionals who manage our own time and schedule and get things done because we want to achieve. There are natural peaks and troughs and we work to these cycles. All out over certain periods, then breathers where we look at easy things and relax a bit.

Mine too. I love being able to adapt my working hours to when I focus best. I have chronic insomnia which comes in cycles, and if I don't manage to nod off until 4am, I can set my alarm for 10am and still do a full day's work on a reasonable amount of sleep rather than having to be up at 6.30 for the commute and feel like death warmed up all day.

Wfh can work well for employees and employers. We have had a hybrid model in our offices across the world for years. We’re all adults and don’t micromanage staff. The timing of when work is done is mainly driven by the requirements of our clients. Work can be completed at the office, home, clients, coffee shop or airport. The time and place is irrelevant. The quality of the work is the issue and it obviously works and our offices have no plans to force people back into the office unnecessarily. Wfh has huge work - life balance benefits.

@Spiceup

This is another reason whi hinwworking wont last. It can work for a certain sort of ery motivated very contentious person but for too many (the majority?) there are just too many temptations and opportunities to spend the time doing something other than what you're paid for.

And yes, a good manager should be able to manage it but even for good managers it brings additions "issues" that they wouldn't have if everyone was in.

If your job doesn't have obvious measurable outputs then it's a crappy, badly defined job.

You don't need a manager breathing down your neck, and checking if you are definitely working and not doing something else, like your child.

Your output should be a clear indication whether you're doing your job or not.

I doubt very much this happens much. Reminds me of the benefit frauds claims by the govt.

It would not even cross my mind to do this - some people are assholes.

This “issue” I reckon can be summed up in two words

Mountain
Molehill

@GreenLakes

This is another reason to add to the long list why wfh is bad for both employees and employers.

I’m a senior manager and all staff are now required to be in the office 4 days a week at my place.

Sounds grim🙄..l.i would hate to be micromanaged

@fibeee

This has been happening long before wfh became mainstream. In my industry I’ve known many people who have a 9-5 and also contract on the side for big money. Working remotely was the norm long before Covid arrived so who knows what they were working on in quiet periods.

Agreed. My role has always been WFH. It’s a field based role and my one and only head office is 100 miles away. So my home has been my office for the entire 8 years I’ve been working here.

WFH is not a new thing. There’s more people doing it due to Covid, but it has been a way of working for many people way before Covid came along. And therefore these things will quite likely have been happening back then also.

I’d struggle to do another job alongside the one I do! My job keeps me busy enough that I wouldn’t have the time even if I wanted to!

It’s easy to manage task oriented jobs remotely. Or sales targets. Some jobs are harder. If it requires lots of collaboration and fast paced change, it’s not so easy.

What boredzelda said.

If management are too incompetent to manage staff effectively then they need to hire different managers.

I swear OP's like this are made up by sanctimonious holier than thou middle management who have this bums-on-seats factory model mentality.

Wake up call, WFH is here to stay!

I've been doing three days work in one (Zoom on iPad, laptop and phone) for the last couple of months and it is stressful and I do make mistakes but as a single person without parents who can give me a deposit, it's the only way I can ever think about saving up enough to not rent. My job involves loads of pointless hanging around so my productivity isn't really impacted, but if it was and meant I was making the lives of other more senior people who already own houses difficult then I don't think I would give a shit, quite frankly.

I have a “side hustle” I do - and did long before the pandemic - which is linked to my actual work. I had to seek permission from my manager to do it, which would be the same if I got a second job working evenings in Tesco. In my case my freelance work actually benefits my company, and yes, sometimes I do bits in work time if I have a quiet spell. But I did that before Covid tbh.

@AuntieJoyce

If any poster reading this is a payroll person I’d be interested to know how people get away with this in the UK. Do they not need a P45? Would you not have a strange tax code so that the deductions were right which would flag up you had another job?

When I was in my twenties, I had a full-time job and two part-time evening jobs. All ok with HMRC, but obviously I was taxed on everything I earned from the other jobs because my personal allowance had all been taken up by my full-time job. I know some people now who have two or three part-time jobs to make ends meet. All perfectly legal.

I doubt this is as widespread as people make out. I wouldn't have the time to do this in my WFH job and for most of my WFH friends this is the same.

Maybe normal for MP's though....

I’ve always been very pro flexible working but as someone who runs a business some of the comments on here I must admit make me glad that I no longer employ anyone and just hand out paid assignments on fixed prices. Flexible working is a big bonus for many, and many do indeed work just as hard if not harder or at least smarter, but I have to be honest I would monitor what is actually done, because it seems a fair few piss takers are more than happy to fit in a couple of hours around their other commitments — and I for one am fed up of places I used to be able to call and speak to someone within say 10 minutes taking 40 minutes— and that’s if I actually get through to someone— and the lady on here charging for 4 hours work when it takes you an hour— that’s why I never ever pay hourly rates for anything— I’m sorry but some people with these attitudes , unless they are truly freelance will ruin flexible work for everyone who actually values it and doesn’t take the piss

I ran 2 contracts at once, neither were full time - together they made up a full week, but sometimes things clashed though it was more deadline's and meetings clashing versus 2 meetings. One company told me the role was full time as they then charged the client for 5 days a week. It wasn't, but it meant they had budget left to bring in specialists so worked out fine. Same company after my contract ended sprang work on me to finish off a report after I'd started a new contract. That was a nightmare as new contract was full time, so I had to work late and some Saturdays. But best to keep clients happy than swing the lead... I really don't get why people think under performance is acceptable.

@decadentspendthrift

I've been doing three days work in one (Zoom on iPad, laptop and phone) for the last couple of months and it is stressful and I do make mistakes but as a single person without parents who can give me a deposit, it's the only way I can ever think about saving up enough to not rent. My job involves loads of pointless hanging around so my productivity isn't really impacted, but if it was and meant I was making the lives of other more senior people who already own houses difficult then I don't think I would give a shit, quite frankly.

This is the real problem. That so many people simply can't afford to buy even a modest home despite having a full time job.